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Old 12-16-2014, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,737,620 times
Reputation: 29967

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Sorry, no "federal case" here. Police have every right to ask for ID of anyone with whom they come into contact during their lawful duties, and that includes those who initiate contact with them. This chumbolone obviously wanted their attention and he got it. Once that contact was made, they were within their right to ask for ID, and the Constitution does not grant you the right to refuse to identify yourself. One can make a reasonable argument that the officers should have shook their heads at this Dale Gribble wannabe and carried on with whatever they were doing, but this guy isn't going to get very far if he tries to make a federal case out of what transpired here.

 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:06 PM
 
104 posts, read 114,936 times
Reputation: 84
How sad it is some of us are so blind or just living in a cave? All I can say is go educate yourselves about the Constitution. Rich Cape Cod is a retired LE and he is backing me up that this guy, although an obnoxious jerk, he did nothing wrong.
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,794,108 times
Reputation: 2285
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCapeCod View Post
I’ve read this thread from the beginning. There’s a good deal of miscommunication taking place. The issue is not whether or not the individual calling out to the officers was a fool, speaking out inappropriately, acting in a socially unacceptable fashion or was simply a jerk.

The question is; was that person in violation of the law and were the officers response to his obnoxious verbal taunts appropriate?

For the record, I’m a retired police officer with forty-one years active service in two departments (twenty years apiece in one very large, one very small agency. Retired as a lt. in one and chief of police in another.). I am most sympathetic to the officers in the video. None the less, they were wrong (legally) in their interaction with the person doing the catcalling and videoing.

We don’t know why the woman was stopped and arrested. The search of her outermost garments by the male officer, using the back of his gloved hand, was proper and correct.

When the obnoxious individual called out to the officers the only correct action they could have lawfully taken was to ignore him. The scene played out on the video is the common opening gambit to a successful federal violation of civil rights lawsuit (42 USC 1983). They had no probable cause to arrest this person. Their demands for identification were clearly a response to their annoyance at his abrasive verbal taunts. In a federal court, should this matter get that far, they would be toast.

Fundamentally, a person has the right to say nearly anything they wish to an officer (yes, we could come up with limitations and bizarre hypotheticals that might cause one to question that assertion, but, as a rule, what I stated is correct.).

I repeat my earlier comment; the officers should have ignored Mr. Cretin. They should not have approached him, trespassed on his property (they were put on notice by Mr. Cretin he wished them off his property. No exigent situation existed that mitigated this demand.). By coming up to him they put themselves in a difficult and unwinnable situation. They will win the battle (the arrest) but lose the war (the lawsuit). This may be unpleasant to hear for some, but that is the legal system we live under in our nation.
I agree with the ignoring. I would have ignored him but he wanted confrontatation by presenting this act as terroristic threatening to get a response in the first place. And then screamed, get off my property. He aged it on, then couldn't take it. He was the aggressor. It would have been a fine in my court for detouring operations... plain and simple. You want my staff to accomodate your idocy, then you pay the wages.

Last edited by thegreenflute334; 12-16-2014 at 10:30 PM..
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,737,620 times
Reputation: 29967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Deckard View Post
How sad it is some of us are so blind or just living in a cave? All I can say is go educate yourselves about the Constitution. Rich Cape Cod is a retired LE and he is backing me up that this guy, although an obnoxious jerk, he did nothing wrong.
How many semesters of Constitutional Law did you take?

I took three. Plenty enough to know that once you refuse to produce ID, there's a good chance you're going to end up with cuffs behind your back and the courts are going to be perfectly OK with that.
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:17 PM
 
104 posts, read 114,936 times
Reputation: 84
Again, sadly, most of us here are uneducated as evidenced in all the uneducated responses because many of you are responding from the hip or monday morning quarterbacking, even guessing because people don't study or know the law. But the facts, and the law, and the constitution of the United States are factual. You can't argue with facts. Thanks to Rich Cape Cod we now know the facts given by a RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

Thanks Rich

Last edited by Ray Deckard; 12-16-2014 at 10:38 PM..
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:42 PM
 
Location: The Natural State
1,221 posts, read 1,886,386 times
Reputation: 1188
Oh will it never end
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,737,620 times
Reputation: 29967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Deckard View Post
Again, sadly, most of us here are uneducated as evidenced in all the uneducated responses because many of you are responding from the hip or monday morning quarterbacking, even guessing because people don't study or know the law. But the facts, and the law, and the constitution of the United States are factual. You can't argue with facts. Thanks to Rich Cape Cod we now know the facts given by a RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

Thanks Rich
Do you even understand how the legal and judicial system works? Of course you can argue facts, the law, and the Constitution. That's exactly what happens in our courtrooms every day.
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:52 PM
 
104 posts, read 114,936 times
Reputation: 84
The bottom line is the obnoxious guy yelling from his garage did nothing wrong in terms of the law and the officers were in the wrong by encroaching on his property, harassing him and ultimately arresting him. DO YOU ALL UNDERSTAND?
 
Old 12-16-2014, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,737,620 times
Reputation: 29967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Deckard View Post
The bottom line is the obnoxious guy yelling from his garage did nothing wrong in terms of the law and the officers were in the wrong by encroaching on his property, harassing him and ultimately arresting him. DO YOU ALL UNDERSTAND?
We understand that's your assessment of the situation. Some of us disagree. Shouting about it isn't going to make your argument more persuasive.
 
Old 12-16-2014, 11:53 PM
 
104 posts, read 114,936 times
Reputation: 84
I am not shouting, and if you think I am, this is your opinion. The CAPS was more about clarity so please stop trying to change the subject. Educate yourself please.
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