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The following posts were in a different thread, but they both reference POA's (Property Owners Association), which are the twin sister to Home Owner's Association, and cousin to the Covenants used in developments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
Know how you feel about HSV. I have heard a lot of good about it and of course it is a Cooper development just like Bella Vista. We have been in BV 12 years now. My biggest concern, if I were moving to HPV would be the high POA dues. But I believe the OP is planning on renting. Are there a lot of decent rentals, especially apartments in HSV?
Quote:
Originally Posted by btoverdrive
There are lots of rentals here, both condos and homes, furnished or unfurnished, short term or long term. The POA dues are $69 per month for improved lot (home) and $39 for unimproved. Personally I don't consider that to be high based on what I have paid HOAs in the past, plus it keeps the amenities nice. I would be willing to pay more if needed. Plus there are two medical marijuana dispensaries in HotSprings for the headaches although I do not need to partake in that.
I just want to do some general discussion on these and other things that restrict ownership freedom. Part of this stems from my view of HOA's, which is pretty much like they are portrayed by Cynthia in the GEICO commercial. https://youtu.be/Ryqv9REMpsg
I ran across on covenant, at Trotter Acres, near Salesville AR, but interestingly, it had expired the year before I read it. (Unbeknownst to the Real Estate Agent).
I don't understand the point of POA's or HOA's if a city has codes and enforces them. If those things are just in certain neighborhoods of a city, then it's a red flag of nitpicky to be avoided.
Generally, city codes usually aren't as strict. Living under city codes isn't bad. Property values, cleanliness, public safety...
If people don't want to live under those restrictions, there is countryside all around and that's a respectable lifestyle too.
I've also heard of country subdivisions with fewer restrictions than what you might see in town. Sometimes, they'll actually be more restrictive and demand you build a 4k sqft monstrosity otherwise you can't do anything with the property. One of the reasons certain parts of the rural Ozarks have gotten more expensive in recent years.
My inner vagabond would just as soon join up with a travelling band of gypsy's, live life, and let everyone else bicker over their property issues that they're paying way too much for.
I don't understand the point of POA's or HOA's if a city has codes and enforces them. If those things are just in certain neighborhoods of a city, then it's a red flag of nitpicky to be avoided.
Generally, city codes usually aren't as strict. Living under city codes isn't bad. Property values, cleanliness, public safety...
If people don't want to live under those restrictions, there is countryside all around and that's a respectable lifestyle too.
I've also heard of country subdivisions with fewer restrictions than what you might see in town. Sometimes, they'll actually be more restrictive and demand you build a 4k sqft monstrosity otherwise you can't do anything with the property. One of the reasons certain parts of the rural Ozarks have gotten more expensive in recent years.
My inner vagabond would just as soon join up with a travelling band of gypsy's, live life, and let everyone else bicker over their property issues that they're paying way too much for.
OK, I agree with you, except that you lost me with the line:
"certain parts of the rural Ozarks have gotten more expensive in recent years."
Are you saying people buy up land in the Ozarks to get away from the restrictions?
Or that certain country subdivisions are more expensive because of the restrictions?
The covenant I saw over at Trotter Acres had a few things going for it. One, that it had a sunset clause, and two that it was fairly narrow: homes had to be on foundation, and have a wooden roof, no pigs or goats, and that was just about it. Lots were 5 acres each and they were hoping people with horses would buy up the lots. It didn't work, because the economy wasn't in line with their expectations, but it was a good idea.
I also heard about (second hand) a subdivision of Killeen TX that had
deed restrictions that went on, I guess, forever. That blows my mind.
I am not quite the "vagabond, joining a band of gypsies" kind of guy, but I am pretty libertarian.
No Goats, no hogs? A ridiculous infringement on my personal rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I lived under the bondage of an HOA once in my life and will never do so again.
I will say, we are pretty much the type of people who roll with the punches most of the time, and are not likely to stir the pot, so we are not upset about the POA as long as the dues do not get to the place we have to struggle to pay them. We look at the positive that we enjoy by being a part of a POA. We love the amenities that would cost us a fortune if they were to be taken over by the city. We love the 2 restaurants here that are managed by our POA and yes, some of the restrictions as well. OK, telling us that color we can paint our house is over stepping things a bit, but I don't know of anyone who has been told they could not paint their house whatever color they wanted and if they were told that, my guess the colors they wanted were totally off the wall. I happen to feel our POA helps keep our property values up. But then again, what the heck do I know?
I will say, we are pretty much the type of people who roll with the punches most of the time, and are not likely to stir the pot, so we are not upset about the POA as long as the dues do not get to the place we have to struggle to pay them. We look at the positive that we enjoy by being a part of a POA. We love the amenities that would cost us a fortune if they were to be taken over by the city. We love the 2 restaurants here that are managed by our POA and yes, some of the restrictions as well. OK, telling us that color we can paint our house is over stepping things a bit, but I don't know of anyone who has been told they could not paint their house whatever color they wanted and if they were told that, my guess the colors they wanted were totally off the wall. I happen to feel our POA helps keep our property values up. But then again, what the heck do I know?
Same here. For our POA dues we have pickle ball/tennis courts, marina, community center/pub, library, hiking trails that are maintained regularly and much more.
No Goats, no hogs? A ridiculous infringement on my personal rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I lived under the bondage of an HOA once in my life and will never do so again.
Well that is why I said one of the best things about it was that it expired 20 years after the subdivision was established. I don't know if they could have renewed it, or what limits they could have imposed after that, but it was what I call a failed subdivision, so they weren't likely to do much, and I didn't buy there, for unrelated reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
... I happen to feel our POA helps keep our property values up. But then again, what the heck do I know?
That is what POA's and HOA's were designed to do, but I keep hearing horror stories about them, partly as a consequence of the Iron Law of Oligarchy. Between that law, and the warning Brandeis gave us, I have a bit of an allergy to them.
Good to explore their pro's and con's though.
Quote:
“Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
Justice Louis D. Brandeis, dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 US 479 (1928)
OK, I agree with you, except that you lost me with the line:
"certain parts of the rural Ozarks have gotten more expensive in recent years."
Are you saying people buy up land in the Ozarks to get away from the restrictions?
Or that certain country subdivisions are more expensive because of the restrictions?
The covenant I saw over at Trotter Acres had a few things going for it. One, that it had a sunset clause, and two that it was fairly narrow: homes had to be on foundation, and have a wooden roof, no pigs or goats, and that was just about it. Lots were 5 acres each and they were hoping people with horses would buy up the lots. It didn't work, because the economy wasn't in line with their expectations, but it was a good idea.
I also heard about (second hand) a subdivision of Killeen TX that had
deed restrictions that went on, I guess, forever. That blows my mind.
I am not quite the "vagabond, joining a band of gypsies" kind of guy, but I am pretty libertarian.
Many rural areas around the Ozarks have become more expensive mostly due to popularity, restrictions or not.
An ongoing theory to go along with that idea is that because people from more expensive places are moving in, the local market sees dollar signs, only to shoot themselves in the foot by making everything more expensive.
At least, this is what I've heard from other locals and it does seem to carry some weight.
People move to the Ozarks to get away from everything, but then some want to keep the so-called riff-raff out and that's where I think the restrictive subdivisions and villages come in.
I will say, we are pretty much the type of people who roll with the punches most of the time, and are not likely to stir the pot, so we are not upset about the POA as long as the dues do not get to the place we have to struggle to pay them. We look at the positive that we enjoy by being a part of a POA. We love the amenities that would cost us a fortune if they were to be taken over by the city. We love the 2 restaurants here that are managed by our POA and yes, some of the restrictions as well. OK, telling us that color we can paint our house is over stepping things a bit, but I don't know of anyone who has been told they could not paint their house whatever color they wanted and if they were told that, my guess the colors they wanted were totally off the wall. I happen to feel our POA helps keep our property values up. But then again, what the heck do I know?
I'm with you, Nita...I would not want to live next to someone who had painted their houses Pepto-Bismol pink and lime green, for instance. Nor would I want to live next to someone with roosters, hogs, guineas, game *****, penned-up barking dogs, etc. Or old cars parked in the yard, or the grass 2 ft. high, or chain-link fence covered with vines, or an old broken-down above-ground swimming pool in the yard...I could go on and on........
You move out in the country, and that's what you are liable to get. Heck, I have that here in my town!
I would love to live in a place as clean and orderly as HotSpringsVillage. I would have no trouble at all complying with POA rules. To each his own!
Well that is why I said one of the best things about it was that it expired 20 years after the subdivision was established. I don't know if they could have renewed it, or what limits they could have imposed after that, but it was what I call a failed subdivision, so they weren't likely to do much, and I didn't buy there, for unrelated reasons.
That is what POA's and HOA's were designed to do, but I keep hearing horror stories about them, partly as a consequence of the Iron Law of Oligarchy. Between that law, and the warning Brandeis gave us, I have a bit of an allergy to them.
Good to explore their pro's and con's though.
Certainly it is good to research and no, they are not perfect by any means as I have said before, but the scare tactics that we hear about are mostly from those who: 1-have a hatred for POA period, or 2-have bumped elbows with them because the wanted to do something that was totally not acceptable. I have neer seen anyone being forced to take down a fence, change the color of the house or any of these claims, nor do I know anyone who has had a serious problem. Sometimes I wish the POA would take action against some of the residence that don't keep their yards up at all or who have junk that detracts from the neighborhood beauty.
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