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In no way was I trying to degrade who nmnita is as a person. Im sure she is a wonderful and generous being. The point isnt about her or Arkansas specifically, its much greater than all of us. There are things embedded in the system that brought us to the boiling point we are at now. Theyve been cooked and baked into American culture to the point where they are no much harder to change or remove.
You bring up a very good point: people want their perceptions validated. Thats why people have their own news sources. You dont go to get the news, you go get your news. Conservatives have Fox and OAN, Liberals have MSNBC and more recently CNN. People dont care about reality, statistics, or history, they just want to feel better about themselves via going to a news source that will validate their opinions.
I should be as patient as you but I dont know that I am. I dont assume people who think racism is a thing of the past are themselves racist, I dont think most are. But its all about who you encounter and the different perspectives youre exposed to. While Rogers and Springdale have large Hispanic populations, the entire region is only 2.5% black which is tiny. That means that the average person in that region is only going to know what they experience through a filter like TV or internet in regards to black perspective. TV and internet will mostly only show you the extremes. Thats why Im not surprised at the reaction of many on this thread. If you have no exposure to a group on a day to day basis, youll never know what their perspective is.
I can respect this view, but Im a statistical guy. I know what the demographics in the Metro Area of Northwest Arkansas are. As mentioned above places like Springdale and Rogers have healthy Hispanic communities, but the metro area is only 2.5% black. That makes it hard to gain any perspective from their views.
You bring an interesting point about "obsessive madness" in other parts of the US. I live in one of those places and am from another one. I have relatives that near Texarkana and they are under the impression that Houston might as well be a war zone. Im always quick to point out that Tulsa has a similar crime rate to Houston and it never gets dinged for stuff like that. It goes back to what I said above I think. People mainly know what they see through filters like internet and TV and those filters only show you the most extremes left and right. The reason I bring that up (and I say this with respect) is that you chose the term "obsessive madness" instead of saying something like a slower pace of living or more neighborly or something to that effect. Im not equating that with race at all, but rather there is a big mentality divide on how people in smaller communities see major cities and vice versa. People in big cities are just as guilty so dont think Im singling you guys out.
One of the issues is the lumping of groups together. BLM and Antifa arent remotely similar in philosophy, but Ive noticed they are lumped together continuously on this thread. BLM is an organization that tries to shed light on black inequality in the US and in particular among the police and criminal justice system. Antifa is just a loose group of anarchist. Their whole purpose is to spread chaos and my opinion of them isnt much different from the conservative posters on this thread. I do support most of BLM's views though.
You mention that you dont feel more certain that police feel more trigger happy because they are chasing a black guy. I want to believe that is true but I dont know. I dont think most police feel more trigger happy when they are chasing a black guy, but the stats dont lie. I do get on a lot of BLM supporters because they are quick to point out that black people are 3x more likely to be shot by cops and right wingers point out that black people commit more murders per capita. Thats why we have to take both of those points into question. What ends up is that black people are 1.36 times more likely to be victims of police brutality. Thats a HUGE problem still that should be addressed.
As an example, I notice a lot of people point at Chicago as an example of failure. To a degree sure because its ridiculously corrupt and has a massive gang problem, but people dont know or understand what its like to live on the South or West side of Chicago and no one wants to listen. I listed to a good podcast recently that explained it well. They get it from both ends: the gangbangers that run their neighborhood and the cooked and some heavy handed cops too. Then they reduce the number of schools there and the number of after school programs to save money minimizing the resources of the area and making it harder for people to come into something better. Its a crazy complex issue but people want to make it simple so they understand it. That makes it harder still for people from there to be understood.
What I wish white America would do is try to understand where black America is coming from historically and systematically instead of always being quick to point fingers. I think we (white, Middle Eastern, and Asian) at least owe it to them to listen to their perspective.
you and i will have to agree to disagree you mention one side gets all their from this side and the others from another side/ let me tell you, some of us do watch and listen to both sides. I am one of those as is my husband.
We lived near the border of Watts when we were relatively new to adult life. We saw both sides.
We had friends that were police officers: how many friends do you have that are police officers? You talk about blacks being brutalized by the police, of course this may be the case, and never is it right but unless you know what the cops put up with you, nor I should judge. There are people on both sides that are wrong and at fault; to you it is all one sided. How do you feel about those who shot cops or those who riot and burn down businesses?
Talking will only help if both sides listen. Hopefully this will happen, but not by defending the police or ignoring the lack of respect one side has for the other and this works both ways
you and i will have to agree to disagree you mention one side gets all their from this side and the others from another side/ let me tell you, some of us do watch and listen to both sides. I am one of those as is my husband.
We lived near the border of Watts when we were relatively new to adult life. We saw both sides.
We had friends that were police officers: how many friends do you have that are police officers? You talk about blacks being brutalized by the police, of course this may be the case, and never is it right but unless you know what the cops put up with you, nor I should judge. There are people on both sides that are wrong and at fault; to you it is all one sided. How do you feel about those who shot cops or those who riot and burn down businesses?
Talking will only help if both sides listen. Hopefully this will happen, but not by defending the police or ignoring the lack of respect one side has for the other and this works both ways
Let me address this first. You said: "to you its all one sided". In my arguments on this thread, I said this:
"Its a double edged sword. People dont want to budge on certain issues. The policing system has disproportionately affected the black community negatively vs. the white community. Its because of that, I believe it is up to the policing community to make the first move in good faith. To me, that first step should come from the police unions that make it virtually impossible to fire the bad cops that do exist. Of course I think most cops do the best they can day in and out, but there are a number of them that took the job as revenge for high school. They shouldnt be cops, but the unions make it impossible to deal with them."
and
"I would like to see more interaction between black community leaders and the police."
Those statements should show that I dont feel this is one sided. I pointed my finger at the police unions for making it impossible to fire bad cops but fully acknowledge that most cops are trying to do the best they can with what they have in front of them. Ive also acknowledged that patrolling some neighborhoods can make a person feel on edge and that cops have to deal with the worst elements of society and that can elicit emotions of anger and rage. But my argument is that they know that going into the job. It shouldnt be a surprise that that will happen. I do truly believe most cops handle that with dignity and respect and Im glad to have them. But some dont and those are the ones I wish the police unions wouldnt try so hard to protect.
As for how many friends I have that are cops, 4. Two of them agree with my point of view and two disagree with me.
Asking a question like "How do you feel about those who shot cops or those who riot and burn down businesses?" is pretty loaded. Of course I dont feel any pity or respect for people who do things like that and I have even more contempt for them because the 90% plus of protesters who are trying to get attention for their cause get lost. I hope they do get arrested and have to pay restitution. As for people who shoot at cops unprovoked (like what happened in Compton this week), lock them up and throw away the key. They dont belong on the streets.
Thats where this goes back to the filter Ive been talking about. More than likely, none of us have been to one of these protests (I havent anyway), so we only know what we see on the news or the internet. They will only show you extremes. On that note, I did say this:
"...people want their perceptions validated. Thats why people have their own news sources. You dont go to get the news, you go get your news. Conservatives have Fox and OAN, Liberals have MSNBC and more recently CNN. People dont care about reality, statistics, or history, they just want to feel better about themselves via going to a news source that will validate their opinions."
And thats where this plays in. Protesters can be viewed as peaceful or criminals depending on where a person gets their news. I try to separate a protester vs. a rioter. The former I respect, the later should be put in jail and/or pay monetarily for their actions. Of course not everyone watches the same network all the time, but studies show people do tend to gravitate towards one or two with similar leanings. There are of course people who watch both MSNBC and Fox regularly, but IMO thats the exception not the rule.
As for me, Im a statistics geek. I have the opinions I do have primarily because of my study of statistics and history.
Actually, I consider defense a serious issue whether it's self defense or defense of the USA from the Marxist push that is upon us. I believe the country is headed for revolution. In essence, it has already begun. Either you acknowledge it, choose your side and get prepared, or wait for it to come thru your front door and take everything.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is mine. I'm sure yours is very different.
A marxist push is upon America? That's fascinating, please tell us more. Is that a common opinion in your neck of the woods?
Let me address this first. You said: "to you its all one sided". In my arguments on this thread, I said this:
"Its a double edged sword. People dont want to budge on certain issues. The policing system has disproportionately affected the black community negatively vs. the white community. Its because of that, I believe it is up to the policing community to make the first move in good faith. To me, that first step should come from the police unions that make it virtually impossible to fire the bad cops that do exist. Of course I think most cops do the best they can day in and out, but there are a number of them that took the job as revenge for high school. They shouldnt be cops, but the unions make it impossible to deal with them."
and
"I would like to see more interaction between black community leaders and the police."
Those statements should show that I dont feel this is one sided. I pointed my finger at the police unions for making it impossible to fire bad cops but fully acknowledge that most cops are trying to do the best they can with what they have in front of them. Ive also acknowledged that patrolling some neighborhoods can make a person feel on edge and that cops have to deal with the worst elements of society and that can elicit emotions of anger and rage. But my argument is that they know that going into the job. It shouldnt be a surprise that that will happen. I do truly believe most cops handle that with dignity and respect and Im glad to have them. But some dont and those are the ones I wish the police unions wouldnt try so hard to protect.
As for how many friends I have that are cops, 4. Two of them agree with my point of view and two disagree with me.
Asking a question like "How do you feel about those who shot cops or those who riot and burn down businesses?" is pretty loaded. Of course I dont feel any pity or respect for people who do things like that and I have even more contempt for them because the 90% plus of protesters who are trying to get attention for their cause get lost. I hope they do get arrested and have to pay restitution. As for people who shoot at cops unprovoked (like what happened in Compton this week), lock them up and throw away the key. They dont belong on the streets.
Thats where this goes back to the filter Ive been talking about. More than likely, none of us have been to one of these protests (I havent anyway), so we only know what we see on the news or the internet. They will only show you extremes. On that note, I did say this:
"...people want their perceptions validated. Thats why people have their own news sources. You dont go to get the news, you go get your news. Conservatives have Fox and OAN, Liberals have MSNBC and more recently CNN. People dont care about reality, statistics, or history, they just want to feel better about themselves via going to a news source that will validate their opinions."
And thats where this plays in. Protesters can be viewed as peaceful or criminals depending on where a person gets their news. I try to separate a protester vs. a rioter. The former I respect, the later should be put in jail and/or pay monetarily for their actions. Of course not everyone watches the same network all the time, but studies show people do tend to gravitate towards one or two with similar leanings. There are of course people who watch both MSNBC and Fox regularly, but IMO thats the exception not the rule.
As for me, Im a statistics geek. I have the opinions I do have primarily because of my study of statistics and history.
I may agree agree more people watch only the networks that will tell them what they want to hear, but you lumped us altogether. That is where I take exception. As for protesters and rioters: there is a huge difference as many of us have tried to point out: peaceful protesting is always acceptable but too often peaceful turns to violence unless the cops are on the scene.
As for your study of statistics, I will not touch that one as I have very strong opinions of the subject and that would just open up another debate which isn't necessary right now.
BLM, Antifa, and their supporters, regardless of the color of their skin, regardless of their ethnicity or their background, had looted and burned this country and caused more damage in the year of 2020 than all KKK members in the last 25 years.
Do KKK members have to sit their kids down at age 12 and give them a talk about how the police can't be trusted to treat them fairly and may even put their health or their very lives in danger?
I'm willing to bet more Blacks are killed by other Blacks in two months in a large city like Chicago than the combined victims of the Klan in the entire USA in two decades. I'm not defending the Klan, but I do blame the thugs killing their own folks.
Do KKK members have to sit their kids down at age 12 and give them a talk about how the police can't be trusted to treat them fairly and may even put their health or their very lives in danger?
Hey, look, another bass boat, humming along.
But to answer your question, most of the people on the right (and it goes double for minorities on the right) have to have a conversation before sending our kids to school, out in public alone, or anywhere else, that from time to time, they may meet someone like that, and on rare occasion, that person may be wearing a badge.
If you are giving your kind a talk about how no police can be trusted, or even the majority, you are part of the problem.
And that ends my conversation about this, with you.
I'm willing to bet more Blacks are killed by other Blacks in two months in a large city like Chicago than the combined victims of the Klan in the entire USA in two decades. I'm not defending the Klan, but I do blame the thugs killing their own folks.
It would be a safe bet, if you said one month.
But the Left has no use for honesty.
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