[4everMissouri]

Is it better? Is it worse? Just curious.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

I've lived in both. They are very similar with Arkansas having a Southern flavor. Taxes in Arkansas are a little higher. It seems that you'll have less interference from local government in Arkansas. Especially regarding property. You can literally live in a shack without sewage and water and no one will interfere with you. Roads are much better in Missouri, don't ask me where the taxes go in Arkansas. In Missouri you don't see all of the trash piled up in yards that you see all over Arkansas. Gun laws are very similar since Arkansas finally lined out their constitutional carry laws and removed the contradictions for law enforcement. Arkansas has the highest or second highest gun ownership in the country depending on the source. You can hunt deer with dogs and buckshot in Arkansas.

In 2019 a study was published showing that Arkansas had the highest meth use in the nation, Missouri was number ten or eleven. Arkansas has a terrible crime problem, due to its notoriously permissive criminal justice system. I saw this first-hand during the two years I worked as a parole-probation officer. Arkansas simply doesn't have enough prison space for all of the thugs who live there and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. Little Rock, eastern, and southern Arkansas are very dangerous places. Missouri is noticeably better in that regard. Drug crimes and the inevitable property crime that comes with it are off the charts in Arkansas. Most of the crime in Western and northern Arkansas will be drug and property crimes.

Honest people get really fed up with the smelly, thieving scrotes & scrunts who steal and vandalize their property. Every two or three days some citizen would call me about one of my parolees or probationers who was threatening them or stealing from them, or endangering their kids with meth and other drugs. They had the reasonable idea that I should be able to do something about it because ten years before I would have been able to issue a temporary warrant and lock them up for a few days to give the court or the parole board time to issue a warrant and revoke their supervision. But no more. Revocation warrants are hard to get and when you do get one it's hard and sometimes impossible to find a jail to hold them. Often I and another officer would waste our entire day driving some scrote clear across the state to the only jail cell we could find available. Typical parole revocation, even for new felony arrests, is a mere 90 days and then they are right back out doing the same things they did until the parole board finally issued another warrant and revoked them for another 90 days. I've had parolees sentenced on new charges to four or six years, and then four months later, just when I had forgotten their name, they show up on my caseload again and we start the process all over again.

Well anyway, that's probably more than you wanted to hear. Both Missouri and Arkansas are good places in spite of it all. I live in southern Missouri now, but my wife and I are looking at rural vacation property in northern Arkansas. If we get it I intend to return to being a parole-probation officer! In spite of the frustrations and the madness, it's still a good job and you sometimes have success turning someone around from being a worthless loser to a full human being.

[sub]

From my experience, Missouri taxes seemed a bit lower when living there.
Laws concerning personal property probably differ more county to county than they do state to state. They don't seem hugely different in that regard.
If you're having a problem in one part of Missouri, it might not be an issue somewhere else in that state.
Agreed that Missouri does better with infrastructure.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

For example, when I moved from Oklahoma to Arkansas in 2019 my cellphone bill increased by more than $20 per month due to taxes simply for my new zip code. Three years earlier I moved from Missouri to Oklahoma and had no noticeable change. Arkansas also has one of the highest minimum wages in the nation, $11 per hour. Booze taxes are higher than Missouri as is fuel. Meth is cheap though. You can tweak for $5.

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by sub

From my experience, Missouri taxes seemed a bit lower when living there.
Laws concerning personal property probably differ more county to county than they do state to state. They don't seem hugely different in that regard.
If you're having a problem in one part of Missouri, it might not be an issue somewhere else in that state.
Agreed that Missouri does better with infrastructure.

I agree with both you and Crosstimbers Okie, with a couple of caveats.

The taxes are higher in one state or another, depending on what you are being taxed for. If you have a boat or a plane, I think taxes in AR are higher, but some people might find them lower (military pay and retirement are not taxed, nor is Social Security).

While Crosstimbers Okie is essentially right about the crime, I think he exaggerates, just a bit, and let's not forget that St Louis is in MO. I deliberately avoid that city, when I travel.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

I possibly exaggerate, the same way that a person who lives on the south side of Dallas exaggerates. And, you really can tweak for $5. Meth from Mexico really is that cheap. Or it was last October when I quit. It's not so much exaggeration as it's what I experienced 40-50 hours per week. People in a different line of work will see less and have a rosier point of view. My experiences were in rural and small town Arkansas, places you would think have less crime than a big city. What I saw causes me to question that. I'm not so certain that property crime and the crimes associated with drug use aren't worse in rural Arkansas than they are in big cites. And that 2019 study I mentioned points in that direction.

However, as I said, both are good places in spite of it all and I'm looking at rural property in Arkansas. People in Arkansas are kind. Hell, even the career criminals I supervised were nearly always nice and easy to get along with and would kindly agree to do what they agreed to do and then promptly commit more crimes. Proof that the old saying that anyone can be nice is true.

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by Crosstimbers Okie

I possibly exaggerate, the same way that a person who lives on the south side of Dallas exaggerates. And, you really can tweak for $5. Meth from Mexico really is that cheap. Or it was last October when I quit. It's not so much exaggeration as it's what I experienced 40-50 hours per week. People in a different line of work will see less and have a rosier point of view. My experiences were in rural and small town Arkansas, places you would think have less crime than a big city. What I saw causes me to question that. I'm not so certain that property crime and the crimes associated with drug use aren't worse in rural Arkansas than they are in big cites. And that 2019 study I mentioned points in that direction.

However, as I said, both are good places in spite of it all and I'm looking at rural property in Arkansas. People in Arkansas are kind. Hell, even the career criminals I supervised were nearly always nice and easy to get along with and would kindly agree to do what they agreed to do and then promptly commit more crimes. Proof that the old saying that anyone can be nice is true.

I would say that your line of work gives you a skewed view of how bad it is. I will vouch for the meth from Mexico being a real problem. A really, really, bad problem. I have written about it in my newsletter: should be considered Chemical Warfare against the US (modern meth isn't the same as the old stuff: it is a "laboratory designed" drug, and substantially more dangerous than the stuff used in the 90's). But that is a different thread.

As for that study, if it is the one I saw, it was designed (for political purposes) to give that point of view, no matter what the reality was. Starting with asking only about Meth, not fentanyl or heroine or K2, or any other drug. There were other factors as well, but it has been a few years, and my memory is fuzzy about the details.

As someone who moved from a high crime area (not far from Ft Hood), to here, I can tell that there is less crime here.

[Hollynla]

Depends on what part of the states you live in. Some are more determined by local laws. For example, in my county there is literally no gov't interference. No building code or permits, you are free to do what you want on your own land. Other counties in AR will have more rules to follow. Same can go for crime, if you factor in the high crime areas of AR such as Little Rock and Pine Bluff, it is skewed to appear higher although many other areas have very little crime. Same goes for Missouri (example being St. Louis).

[PBC-1966]

While only being an Arkansas resident for a couple of years and have never lived in Missouri, I do know from some of my research that in many more rural Missouri counties there are also no building codes and no building permits outside of incorporated areas. I understand that wells and septic systems are regulated at state level (I don't know if anyone even checks), but once those are taken care of you can do pretty much whatever you like. McDonald Co. in far southwestern Mo. is one such county, along with a good many others along the Ark./Mo. border.

On freedom with regard to travel, Missouri has regular vehicle safety inspections while Arkansas has none. Arkansas doesn't mandate motorcycle helmets; I believe Missouri relaxed its requirement a year or two ago but they're still a little stricter. Conversely, Arkansas is primary seat-belt enforcement in cars; Missouri is still secondary (i.e. you cannot be stopped and ticketed for that alone - you have to have been stopped for something else first, be it speeding, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, etc.).

Sales tax: Aside from different rates, as with any comparison, Arkansas taxes electricity, gas, and water. Maybe our Mo. poster can confirm or otherwise, but I think I read somewhere that Missouri provides residential exemptions, at least in part.

[Take a History Class]

I've lived in Southwest Missouri and Northeast Missouri for significant periods of time and in Arkansas for nearly 20 years now. My observations:


1. Taxes are higher down here. I think this is largely a function of Arkansas being the smallest state (by land area) west of the Mississippi and Missouri having twice as many people (6.1 vs 3.0 million residents). The two largest Metropolitan Statistical Areas in MO are ranked 21st and 31st nationwide, the two largest MSAs in Arkansas are 81st and 102nd on that list. I still prefer the way MO assesses/pays property taxes and I haven't lived there for a long time now.



2. Freedom to do as you please is largely the same, though liquor laws in MO are notably lax compared to AR. You can go out in the woods and live off the grid and be left alone in both states, though the terrain in AR outside of the ricelands makes it a little easier to hide. You see plenty of people living in falling down shacks in both states, including a very memorable house in Galt, MO that had been expanded using school bus bodies. Probably still there along highway 6.


3. People are friendlier down here, by a considerable margin. It really is the South.


All in all, I wouldn't move back to Missouri. If I ever leave Arkansas it will likely be for Oklahoma. Really like the area around Tulsa. Both the terrain and the people.