Tell Me About Cherokee Village -- The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (Little Rock: sale, real estate)
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There is another post on the Forum about Bella Vista. It asks to tell "the good, the bad, and the ugly." I would like to hear from folks out there the same thing about Cherokee Village. Thanks.
There is another post on the Forum about Bella Vista. It asks to tell "the good, the bad, and the ugly." I would like to hear from folks out there the same thing about Cherokee Village. Thanks.
There are a couple of people here that are residing there, I own a lot there, and have forever, but make occasional visits for this & that.
Have a few friends that live over there.
The good........it's a beautiful area. Kind of living urban with a country feel, much like any planned community. Most of the residents yards are very well landscaped.
It has several lakes and nice recreational opportunities. Lots of boating/fishing.
It has *many* clubs and organizations for social structure.
It has many churches right there.
It's right off what's called "The four lane", which has a plethora of retaurants and services.
Real estate prices are very good.
Residents have access to good services and recreational venues.
The 'bad', as such....
Rules...ordinances...and more rules. Most of the folks that I know over there feel it's gotten way out of control, and that's what prompted some to try to sell, and that's why it's so reasonable.
I won't try to list examples here, but it has gotten pretty petty, and personal freedom, as far as what you do at your house without checking that you can do it, has narrowed dramayically.
Fighting among the residents. Cherokee didn't become incorporated until....I want to say 2003, if I'm wrong somebody can correct me. There was, of course, a large contingent that wanted to incorporate, and a contingent that didn't.
You think there were hard feelings over the north/south after the war? You should talk to a couple of opposing views over there.
The mayor, council, and S.I.D. are the hot topics.
Isolationism. Don't get me wrong, there are some nice folks around.
And then again......
There is a city directory. It has your name, address, phone number, and prominently displayed, what state you are *from*.
Where you are *from* makes a lot of difference to some folks, and a lot want to make sure you're not a local.
I have been asked many time through the years while eating or drinking over there, "Where are you from?". That comes in early in the conversation, because I long ago got enveloped by the local dialect.
A less common but present approach is "Do you live here", and it doesn't come across as a question exactly.
Yes, there are nice folks over there, but there are also those that would like to build a 10 foot brick wall, put guards at the gate, and make sure you're from Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, or Iowa before you get in.
I think it's totally possible for one to live there and have a peaceful, enjoyable life. It certainly has the amenities, and close proximity to pretty much anything.
They have all ethnicities in the village, and are very accepting, pretty much except for hillbillies.
When I'm in Rome....I make darned sure my toga is clean. Ya know what I mean?
If I went over after dressing a deer for a beer, I believe they'd revive the "lynchin' party".
Timtheman, the reason that Bella Vista gets more coverage and generates more discussion is that it has been marketed more over the years to northerners and people have heard of it more when they are from up north and think of retiring to Arkansas, that's all. Plus, it's in NWA which gets much more press and is more populated than north central Arkansas, where Cherokee Village is located.
RogMar, I like your posts and you seem genuine and a nice guy. As for "If I went over after dressing a deer for a beer, I believe they'd revive the "lynchin' party". I would hope that is not true in most cases. I have read many of your posts and you are very helpful, descriptive, and matter of fact in your descriptions to people of areas you are familiar with. Your recent post on Cherokee Village is no exception. However, I do have an issue with part of your recent post.
"I won't try to list examples here, but it has gotten pretty petty, and personal freedom, as far as what you do at your house without checking that you can do it, has narrowed dramayically."
With all due respect, I believe what you are witnessing to some degree is the much better code enforcement that is now happening in the city, and it is something that should have been better enforced long ago. It is not unreasonable to insist that residents keep their property looking decent and not have grass two feet high, junk cars up on blocks in the front yard, and 25 year old paint peeling off the dilapidated house in large chunks, for example. For those who wish to live like that, they are free to move out in the county where the code enforcement is at a level that suits their needs. They are just not going to be able to maintain their "standard of living" inside CV city limits much longer. The vast majority of the residents feel as I do, it's just that much of the older folks are too nice and mannerly to speak up about their neighbor who refuses to cut his grass all summer and leaves trash in the front yard that he could easily clean up if he just got off his lazy rear.
Code enforcement has been much better lately and it will get even better from what I have heard. Residents are noticing and saying thank you to city hall for the better enforcement. That goes for the less than desirable area of town as well. Every community has their "bad" areas, and CV is no exception, however there is a community attitude that many people are taking that says they want the crappy areas cleaned up.
The days of looking the other way and not doing anything about it are coming to a close. Keeping one's property in decent shape is not a regional thing. Those who refuse or cannot afford to clean up their property to the community standards of Cherokee Village will get pushed out. That is the way it is in communities all over the country. It is that way as much in the north as it is in the south, and vice versa, and it will be that way in Cherokee Village. The majority of the residents want it, and in time, it will happen. For those who don't like what I have said and think I am talking about them, they are probably right, and are free to move out. There will be plenty of people to take their place if a community is deemed to have a healthy and reasonable code enforcement. I am not talking about the "10 foot brick wall" and "guards at the gate". There is some of that attitude around for sure, but what I am describing is plainly a healthy and reasonable code enforcement.
As for the rest of your post, you are generally on the mark. You are never going to get rid of the north/south thing completely, whether it is in Arkansas or anywhere in the south. Nor will you ever get rid of the northerners saying "that's not how we did it up in Illinois" or wherever they are from. Local Arkansans do get tired of that, I am well aware of that, and rightly so they should be. What I am saying is I would tend to say that it's not as extreme as you make it out to be or as much as it once used to be. Especially the "where you from" attitude. As time goes by, that is getting less and less, and maybe that has to do with some of that attitude is now leaving CV because they don't like code enforcement getting serious about having them clean up their property. Those people will not be missed.
I really want to thank you for your posts. It is my hope that this disscussion will continue. One thing about any community -- planned or otherwise -- is it helps to get some perspective on themselves. A forum like this one can let folks speak their mind and get those views out for everyone's benefit. I have sure seen a real change in both appearance and attitudes lately. I'll never forget the "You're not from around here, are you?" comments. But that has sure been the exception rather than the rule. The welcome has been truly great by so many. Much better than what it would have been from anyone coming into my area. Still, we all benefit from a little self-reflection -- both those coming "in" from outside and those from "inside" looking out. Thanks again. Hope the thread continues.
As a Minnesotan who recently took a trip to that area in November I will give my observations. ( first, a special thanks to a couple of regular posters who gave me advice on what not to miss or drives to take that were scenic)
I found the area to be beautifull, the people friendly, and the local realtors I spoke with to be helpfull, but not "pushy" as I only wanted to do drive by on specific houses.
RogMar hit on one thing though----"Isolationism"-----
Although I am far from a big city in MN and love living out in sparsely populated areas in scenic places, it is nice to have a city with about 10,000------15,000 people within a reasonable commuting distance. Mountain Home or West Plains are a long ways off.
I did like Horeshoe Bend also and did check out a house there, but it still is a long drive to a bigger city.
I drove many back roads within Cherokee Village in areas that weren't developed.
I would be leary about buying lots-------sight unseen"----- from a company in Florida that is "pushing them"
There are many areas where the lots look gorgeous with the thick leaves, but 1O feet back, they drop off steeply.
My conclusion-------the area is more beautifull than I imagined but more isolated --GEOGRAPHICLY--then I expected.
Cherokee Village and Horeshoe Bend are still on my list as I realize many decisions involve a "trade off"
To answer your question why Bella Vista is more popular, I will use that old phrase-------"location,location,location"
I had some great conversations with people and will mention a few----------
A plumber and his wife from Brinkley Arkansas who were in the cafe in Hardy where we had great waffles----I learned a lot about the different areas of Arkansas and how the different areas were doing and his pros and cons about relocating to different areas.
A storeowner in Hardy who said what the area wa like 50 years ago as he was growing up on a farm.
A cattle farmer who I met while attending the Friday cattle auction in Ashflat.
The lady who ran a realty in Horshoe Bend and had a good friend who moved there from southern Minnesota.
I had a great trip.
One that I never will forget !
Timtheman, the reason that Bella Vista gets more coverage and generates more discussion is that it has been marketed more over the years to northerners and people have heard of it more when they are from up north and think of retiring to Arkansas, that's all. Plus, it's in NWA which gets much more press and is more populated than north central Arkansas, where Cherokee Village is located.
RogMar, I like your posts and you seem genuine and a nice guy. As for "If I went over after dressing a deer for a beer, I believe they'd revive the "lynchin' party". I would hope that is not true in most cases. I have read many of your posts and you are very helpful, descriptive, and matter of fact in your descriptions to people of areas you are familiar with. Your recent post on Cherokee Village is no exception. However, I do have an issue with part of your recent post.
"I won't try to list examples here, but it has gotten pretty petty, and personal freedom, as far as what you do at your house without checking that you can do it, has narrowed dramayically."
With all due respect, I believe what you are witnessing to some degree is the much better code enforcement that is now happening in the city, and it is something that should have been better enforced long ago. It is not unreasonable to insist that residents keep their property looking decent and not have grass two feet high, junk cars up on blocks in the front yard, and 25 year old paint peeling off the dilapidated house in large chunks, for example. For those who wish to live like that, they are free to move out in the county where the code enforcement is at a level that suits their needs. They are just not going to be able to maintain their "standard of living" inside CV city limits much longer. The vast majority of the residents feel as I do, it's just that much of the older folks are too nice and mannerly to speak up about their neighbor who refuses to cut his grass all summer and leaves trash in the front yard that he could easily clean up if he just got off his lazy rear.
Code enforcement has been much better lately and it will get even better from what I have heard. Residents are noticing and saying thank you to city hall for the better enforcement. That goes for the less than desirable area of town as well. Every community has their "bad" areas, and CV is no exception, however there is a community attitude that many people are taking that says they want the crappy areas cleaned up.
The days of looking the other way and not doing anything about it are coming to a close. Keeping one's property in decent shape is not a regional thing. Those who refuse or cannot afford to clean up their property to the community standards of Cherokee Village will get pushed out. That is the way it is in communities all over the country. It is that way as much in the north as it is in the south, and vice versa, and it will be that way in Cherokee Village. The majority of the residents want it, and in time, it will happen. For those who don't like what I have said and think I am talking about them, they are probably right, and are free to move out. There will be plenty of people to take their place if a community is deemed to have a healthy and reasonable code enforcement. I am not talking about the "10 foot brick wall" and "guards at the gate". There is some of that attitude around for sure, but what I am describing is plainly a healthy and reasonable code enforcement.
As for the rest of your post, you are generally on the mark. You are never going to get rid of the north/south thing completely, whether it is in Arkansas or anywhere in the south. Nor will you ever get rid of the northerners saying "that's not how we did it up in Illinois" or wherever they are from. Local Arkansans do get tired of that, I am well aware of that, and rightly so they should be. What I am saying is I would tend to say that it's not as extreme as you make it out to be or as much as it once used to be. Especially the "where you from" attitude. As time goes by, that is getting less and less, and maybe that has to do with some of that attitude is now leaving CV because they don't like code enforcement getting serious about having them clean up their property. Those people will not be missed.
Oh, I concur with you 100% on making people cut their grass and tidy up.
We both know about the houses that are rentals or summer homes or abandoned, and people don't give a hoot, which burdens everybody else in the neighborhood.
Let me relate two "head shakers" that broke the proverbial camel's back..
Friend's wife moves a number of house plants out to the carport for indirect light..
Cited....*nothing* except cars...in a carport.
Another buys flat landscaping stone and puts in a nice walkway in his back yard.
Cited.....didn't get a permit for "construction".
Now, there's two factors here that, although I don't know for sure, are almost a given.
This ain't my first rodeo, ya understand.
Number one, someone *complained*. I don't believe the code enfocement officers are driving around looking for this kind of stuff. I firmly believe that these "offenses" were witnessed by a resident who called in these blatant offenders. A response was evoked, and the violation was dealt with.
Which takes me to given #2.
There's an old saying, that is entirely accurate...
"Laws are made to be applied when there is an absence of common sense".
Now, with any ordinance, statute, or other law-of-man, there are two very important factors that have all the weight of the world on it.
The first, is "intent". The element of intent is essential to any infraction. Now, this could be dissected and micro-examined, but unless I'm going back to being an overpaid philosopher, we'll bow to the virtue of brevity...
Neither of these people were aware, or believed that they were doing wrong. This was not isolated, just a factor of, "I really don't believe this" that motivated them to head for the door.
The second is "discretion".
You have the *letter* of the law, and you have the *spirit* of the law.
I think you can agree that these examples do not fit the spirit, but rather the letter.
Now...Ol' J. Edgar once said, "it is not the possibilty of punishment that deters crime, it is the certainty of it".
We could jack-jaw for hours on that, and the absence of it in the court system, but I think that's the scenario here.
The pressure inflicted on the city government by it's citizens is a heavy burden to say the least. I believe that these infractions were called in, the ordinance enforcement person felt compelled to act, and did.
Understand also, I don't intend these as criticisms, just observations. The OP said "the good, bad, & ugly".
There are a lot of people in CV that are ecstatic with the code system and it's enforcement, and there are some that aren't.
In any given city or area, NWA, central, the south, Little Rock, the hills, there are going to be things that will attract, and things that repel. CV is no different.
I will bow everyday to the beauty, ameneties, location, services, and affordability of CV.
Most everyone will tell you how great *their* Arkansas is, but I would be quick to warn someone looking to relocate to my area about the warts as well as the beauty.
Well, the "lynchin' party" thing, CVer, there are a few around ya know. No, it's not the majority, but in the years of going in and out of there, I've encountered a few of the vocal ones, and you probably know one or two that I've encountered.
As I've said in past posts, they amuse me. I'm pretty easily entertained, and hearing some of these things are a hoot. I feel like....what movie was it..Blazing saddles? Where the black guy is at a klan meeting in a robe and nobody realizes he's black and they spew to him as if he's one of them.
A lot of folks are not as laissez-faire as I choose to be. When you have a "restriction supporter" living close to a "It's my yard, I paid for it.." there's a formula for a bad day.
I had some great conversations with people and will mention a few----------
A plumber and his wife from Brinkley Arkansas who were in the cafe in Hardy where we had great waffles----I learned a lot about the different areas of Arkansas and how the different areas were doing and his pros and cons about relocating to different areas.
A storeowner in Hardy who said what the area wa like 50 years ago as he was growing up on a farm.
A cattle farmer who I met while attending the Friday cattle auction in Ashflat.
The lady who ran a realty in Horshoe Bend and had a good friend who moved there from southern Minnesota.
I had a great trip.
One that I never will forget !
Heh....
You had a great time at Nix's sale barn cause you ain't selling cattle.
I don't know if you remember the sale prices, but it takes 80 cents a pound to break even on a cow.
Beef is probably the best value out there right now.
I assume you went to the "Down Home Country Kitchen" in Hardy, in which case I know you had a fine meal.
I'm glad you saw the area, and hope you return for more.
I am on your side on that one about the two examples of over the top in the code enforcement. I trust you realize from my post, that is not what I am referring to. I would sure love to hear the reasons behind those two examples. Was this recent or long ago? The stone landscaping would show an effort to make the property nicer for the owner and the neighbor's view of it, and decorative stone for a backyard walkway in CV would not be a reason to pull a permit, or so it would seem to me. So why did the neighbors call it in and why the harsh reaction from CE? The plants in the carport, that is a doozy and is anyone's guess as to what and why!?
Please fill us in on more details on those two. I would like to hear the reasoning behind those. Was their a monetary fine as the outcome or was it settled in a reasonable manner?
I am in awe of the beauty of CV, too. I just want "reasonable" code enforcement that doesn't go to either extreme. CV is not a private, gated enclave in Beverly Hills, but it is not the disgusting trailer park you see on an episode of Cops, either. There has to be a balance, and I hope and believe CV will find that balance when it comes to code enforcement.
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