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Old 03-15-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,026 posts, read 24,995,489 times
Reputation: 5390

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marissy View Post
Just because Japan isn't poor, doesn't mean that something terrible can happen to them. There are tons of nations "Known for scientific and technological prowess", but bad stuff still happens to them. Disasters don't skip over nations depending on how rich they are. I think many people need to stop with this "utopian" vision of Japan, like everything there is super advanced and perfect; and nothing can happen there. And yes, most people with common sense know what radiation is and understand it.

The threat it real. The danger is real. This may or may not be a full Chernobyl event, but I think that it could be close if they can stop it soon.
a full meltdown is if they don't cool the plant, if they're not successful... then eventually the entire core would melt. Then it would melt into the bottom of the vessel. Then you get to this theoretical point where if they can’t cool it, then eventually the vessel itself, the steel, would melt, and you’d end up with a bunch of melted fuel and steel on the bottom of the concrete faceplate of the plant, in the containment vessel. And then it would have to get out of there. That’s what I would call a full meltdown....
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:06 PM
 
4,246 posts, read 11,077,720 times
Reputation: 3135
I love how everyone is now Nuclear experts on TV and here. At least they'll know now not to have the generators on the ground since they are surrounded by that large body of water around them.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:15 PM
 
737 posts, read 1,530,953 times
Reputation: 435
This one could be worse then the Chernobyl because it just so happens that the plant in Japan has 8 reactor and the largest in the WORLD. Do I Need to repeat the WORLD. They have got some serious problems over there and perhaps alot of other people as well.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:19 AM
 
185 posts, read 312,530 times
Reputation: 121
From what I've read, the reactors are a 40 years old, was going to be decommissioned this decade anyway. I could make a political joke about how all the problems pilled on over the last decade are melting down here in the US. Oh-oh-oh!
Apparently at the nuclear plant that is having problems has 6 reactors. 3 are Japanese made, the other 3 are made by General Electric. The two reactors that are facing a meltdown are both GE's reactors.
Isn't that interesting? Mmm, yes?
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:41 AM
 
32,626 posts, read 51,228,257 times
Reputation: 18501
This situation in Japan is going to be much worse than the Japanese government/nuclear authority has really presented
the Japanese have history of refusing to be forthcoming with info that can be embarassing to their nation--
I think this is just another classic example of where their pride would not allow them to ask for help/information soon enough to slow or prevent much of the damage that has occurred

I have read several stories with comments by people in the nuclear power industry--people who run other plants in Japan or other countries--and THEY agree that the information they are seeing come from the Japanese plants is confusing, contradictory,and less than forthcoming...
in more than one story I have read that the process the Japanese followed to assess damage and start triage was NOT the right one to use because they became focused on a problem that was not the serious threat that some other aspects of the damage were--and becuase they spent time/energy taking care of something that was not really an emergency--in the larger scope of problems--
the MORE significant issues were not prioritized correctly--leading to more serious problems now--

I have tremedous respect for the people who stayed in those plants to try to solve the problem but you have to ask yourself if they were really capable of doing so--if they were the right people for the jobs they faced--
I don't know who was there--
but I think if a fair and open release of information comes after this in an impartial investigation that you wil find that HUMAN error was responsible for allowing maximum damage to occur--
not the initial earthquake or the tsunami--

one example I read about said that a pump was allowed to run out of gasoline so that water flow stopped--
something that simple--filling a pump with gas--can become 20X the mistake it might be in normal times when conditions are so fraught with danger--
and sometimes those are the types of mistakes that lead to disaster--
remember the lines by Benjamin Franklin
And again, he adviseth to circumspection and care, even in the smallest matters, because sometimes a little neglect may breed great mischief; adding, for want of a nail the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost, and for want of a horse the rider was lost, being overtaken and slain by the enemy, all for want of care about a horse-shoe nail.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,087 posts, read 38,514,326 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobalistPotato View Post
Apparently at the nuclear plant that is having problems has 6 reactors. 3 are Japanese made, the other 3 are made by General Electric. The two reactors that are facing a meltdown are both GE's reactors.
Isn't that interesting? Mmm, yes?
Oh my.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,087 posts, read 38,514,326 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
This situation in Japan is going to be much worse than the Japanese government/nuclear authority has really presented
the Japanese have history of refusing to be forthcoming with info that can be embarassing to their nation--
I think this is just another classic example of where their pride would not allow them to ask for help/information soon enough to slow or prevent much of the damage that has occurred

I have read several stories with comments by people in the nuclear power industry--people who run other plants in Japan or other countries--and THEY agree that the information they are seeing come from the Japanese plants is confusing, contradictory,and less than forthcoming...
in more than one story I have read that the process the Japanese followed to assess damage and start triage was NOT the right one to use because they became focused on a problem that was not the serious threat that some other aspects of the damage were--and becuase they spent time/energy taking care of something that was not really an emergency--in the larger scope of problems--
the MORE significant issues were not prioritized correctly--leading to more serious problems now--

I have tremedous respect for the people who stayed in those plants to try to solve the problem but you have to ask yourself if they were really capable of doing so--if they were the right people for the jobs they faced--
I don't know who was there--
but I think if a fair and open release of information comes after this in an impartial investigation that you wil find that HUMAN error was responsible for allowing maximum damage to occur--
not the initial earthquake or the tsunami--

one example I read about said that a pump was allowed to run out of gasoline so that water flow stopped--
something that simple--filling a pump with gas--can become 20X the mistake it might be in normal times when conditions are so fraught with danger--
and sometimes those are the types of mistakes that lead to disaster--
remember the lines by Benjamin Franklin
And again, he adviseth to circumspection and care, even in the smallest matters, because sometimes a little neglect may breed great mischief; adding, for want of a nail the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost, and for want of a horse the rider was lost, being overtaken and slain by the enemy, all for want of care about a horse-shoe nail.
Quite true.

The other problem with these types of things...is that even experts...how much experience can one really gain in knowing all things about how to handle these types of things?

It isn't like a mechanic who replaces a carborator twenty times a week, week in and week out, for 25 years.

These types of events are once in a lifetime types of events. So, it's kind of like a mechanic who has never fixed a carborator before, trying to fix it for the very first time. Of course, this situation is a million times more complicated, but it's all the 'first crack' at it. On top of that, I'm sure there is a beaucracy that it has to go through, a constant top-down change of priorities, etc.

There is just so much at play here.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: London, England
643 posts, read 1,030,416 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
This situation in Japan is going to be much worse than the Japanese government/nuclear authority has really presented
the Japanese have history of refusing to be forthcoming with info that can be embarassing to their nation--
I think this is just another classic example of where their pride would not allow them to ask for help/information soon enough to slow or prevent much of the damage that has occurred
Japan has officially asked the US for help and they have sent some experts over. But as someone else has said, there are multiple problems and this is not exactly a common event so i'm not sure what these people know but i just hope there isn't a full on meltdown.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX & AL Gulf Coast
6,848 posts, read 10,708,939 times
Reputation: 33382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
The other problem with these types of things...is that even experts...how much experience can one really gain in knowing all things about how to handle these types of things?

It isn't like a mechanic who replaces a carborator twenty times a week, week in and week out, for 25 years.

These types of events are once in a lifetime types of events. So, it's kind of like a mechanic who has never fixed a carborator before, trying to fix it for the very first time. Of course, this situation is a million times more complicated, but it's all the 'first crack' at it. On top of that, I'm sure there is a beaucracy that it has to go through, a constant top-down change of priorities, etc.

There is just so much at play here.

Agree, Tiger Beer! And, who are we to question those that are right there in the front lines in the heat of the battle???

It's quite easy to become "couch experts" coaching from the sidelines, all the while ensconced in our comfy homes many miles away and critically acclaim what "should be" or "should have been" done without the training and knowledge of the actual facts that most of us will probably never know or have access to. There's just
wayyy too many erroneous news reports out there right now to even try to form an uneducated guess!

That's what we have experts for... an international brain trust that are working together for the good of all... and we have to trust that those in charge of these things are doing their darn level best and give them our support.
See: //www.city-data.com/forum/18282501-post166.html

At the very least we can do is acknowledge those that are right there risking their lives for us all. See: //www.city-data.com/forum/18299071-post195.html

Fact is, we don't have control... or will we ever... over everything... no matter how hard we try... and that's a very hard concept for a lot of us to accept.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:09 PM
 
25,627 posts, read 32,795,086 times
Reputation: 23167
Quote:
Originally Posted by BstYet2Be View Post
Agree, Tiger Beer! And, who are we to question those that are right there in the front lines in the heat of the battle???

It's quite easy to become "couch experts" coaching from the sidelines, all the while ensconced in our comfy homes many miles away and critically acclaim what "should be" or "should have been" done without the training and knowledge of the actual facts that most of us will probably never know or have access to. There's just wayyy too many erroneous news reports out there right now to even try to form an uneducated guess!

That's what we have experts for... an international brain trust that are working together for the good of all... and we have to trust that those in charge of these things are doing their darn level best and give them our support. See: //www.city-data.com/forum/18282501-post166.html

At the very least we can do is acknowledge those that are right there risking their lives for us all. See: //www.city-data.com/forum/18299071-post195.html

Fact is, we don't have control... or will we ever... over everything... no matter how hard we try... and that's a very hard concept for a lot of us to accept.
Exactamundo!
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