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People seeking to emigrate see America as a land where people all have new cars, they live in beautiful houses, they shop in fashionable malls, chat all day in cafe talkfests, go skiing or to the beach every weekend, and have no visible job. Of course they aspire to live in the wonderful country they see in the movies. The really funny part is that Americans also believe that that is how Americans live.
Come on, from your comments it seems unlikely that you live in Texas or anywhere in America. Where do you live for real?
As for your other comment, most middle-class communities in America have very low crime and are quite safe. There's no need to own a gun if you don't want to. However, low-income ghettos may be a different story.
Don'e let the people on the gun forums hear you say that. They keep warning me that everyone in the USA must have a gun in order to protect himself and his family from Americans, and they respond to me by telling me that I am being foolish and short-sighted and naive for not keeping a weapon for self defense while living in America. After all, this IS the nation with the highest per capita number of incarcerated convicted criminals in the world.
So now you know to whom to direct your "stop the dramatics" comment, if you dare.
People seeking to emigrate see America as a land where people all have new cars, they live in beautiful houses, they shop in fashionable malls, chat all day in cafe talkfests, go skiing or to the beach every weekend, and have no visible job. Of course they aspire to live in the wonderful country they see in the movies. The really funny part is that Americans also believe that that is how Americans live.
That is completely absurd. As I stated previously, I do not own a gun nor do I feel I need to in order to be safe in the US. The same is true for nearly all of the people I know and a vast majority of Americans feel safe in their everyday lives. I have to agree with BigCityDreamer in saying that Victoria, TX must be one heck of a town if you feel that you need to possess a gun in order to feel safe.
As for your other comment, I doubt many immigrants choose America solely based on what they see in Hollywood movies, at least I hope not, as it's extremely naive. Also, I (an American) nor no one I know thinks that other everyday Americans live like what we see on T.V. Plus, in spite of our issues, we do live in pretty nice houses (larger and for less money than a lot of the world) and do drive some pretty nice cars (excluding places like Monaco of course), etc. Our GDP per capita adjusted for PPP is pretty high even for a developed country.
But I still wonder, as I stated in my other post, if you don't like living here, why not leave?
Come on, from your comments it seems unlikely that you live in Texas or anywhere in America. Where do you live for real?
As for your other comment, most middle-class communities in America have very low crime and are quite safe. There's no need to own a gun if you don't want to. However, low-income ghettos may be a different story.
I'm beginning to think the same thing....
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Absolutely true, if you live in the middle of a ghetto, it's a different story. But then again, if you live in a ghetto in any country, the crime increases.
Don'e let the people on the gun forums hear you say that. They keep warning me that everyone in the USA must have a gun in order to protect himself and his family from Americans, and they respond to me by telling me that I am being foolish and short-sighted and naive for not keeping a weapon for self defense while living in America. After all, this IS the nation with the highest per capita number of incarcerated convicted criminals in the world.
So now you know to whom to direct your "stop the dramatics" comment, if you dare.
In my case I've never even been to the gun forum so it just sounded like you were saying that's how you feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
People seeking to emigrate see America as a land where people all have new cars, they live in beautiful houses, they shop in fashionable malls, chat all day in cafe talk fests, go skiing or to the beach every weekend, and have no visible job. Of course they aspire to live in the wonderful country they see in the movies. The really funny part is that Americans also believe that that is how Americans live.
Yeah our media gives kind of a strange image of American life. Even the ostensibly poor people often live in large houses where they wear designer clothing and can quit their job without difficulty. (Although this is maybe less true than it once was as shows like "The Office" or "The Middle" do give some sense that there are struggling people who actually are struggling) Although the negative media images of America I don't think are right either. We're not really a land of desperate people with sick kids, alienation, loneliness, brooding, and frustration either.
I think in the good times America is a place where an immigrant has a reasonable hope to eventually acquire a decent paying job (although it might require long hours), a clean house, air conditioning, safe food, proper sanitation, a good entertainment system, and some great universities to send their kids too if they can work themselves ragged to afford it. Also it's a place where they don't need to bribe cops or mobsters. Which doesn't make it that impressive, there are maybe 30 or 40 other countries in the world like that, but still better than where most of the world's people live and better than most of the Americas. (Other than Canada)
That is completely absurd. As I stated previously, I do not own a gun nor do I feel I need to in order to be safe in the US. The same is true for nearly all of the people I know and a vast majority of Americans feel safe in their everyday lives. I have to agree with BigCityDreamer in saying that Victoria, TX must be one heck of a town if you feel that you need to possess a gun in order to feel safe.
As for your other comment, I doubt many immigrants choose America solely based on what they see in Hollywood movies, at least I hope not, as it's extremely naive. Also, I (an American) nor no one I know thinks that other everyday Americans live like what we see on T.V. Plus, in spite of our issues, we do live in pretty nice houses (larger and for less money than a lot of the world) and do drive some pretty nice cars (excluding places like Monaco of course), etc. Our GDP per capita adjusted for PPP is pretty high even for a developed country.
But I still wonder, as I stated in my other post, if you don't like living here, why not leave?
Jeez. My comments about guns were dripping with satirical sarcasm. Go and read the gun-nut forums and see what those guys say about their indispensable armory to keep their wives and children from being ravaged by maniacs. Same for the movie themes--do you think I believe that Americans live like they do in the movies?
Just why do you think immigrants choose America? Freedom? Most come from countries where ordinary people have as much or more personal freedom than they will have in the USA. It's pretty obvious why Mexicans come here, and it is certainly not for more personal freedom than they have in Mexico. The number of immigrants from other countries is very small, and the majority are people who are already rich and educated professionals.
Where on earth did you ever get the idea that I don't like living in America? Or that for anyone who thinks that America can or should recognize or improve its shortcomings, the only logical choice for them is to just leave. If you don't like living in a country where people are free to criticize without being told to get out, why don't YOU just leave?
Beside, Americans can't just leave---no country will accept them, because they know perfectly well that anyone wanting to immigrate from the USA is just coming there to take advantage of their civilized health care. Millions of Americans would leave, if there were any country that would admit them, but there isn't. We're trapped here.
Jeez. My comments about guns were dripping with satirical sarcasm. Go and read the gun-nut forums and see what those guys say about their indispensable armory to keep their wives and children from being ravaged by maniacs. Same for the movie themes--do you think I believe that Americans live like they do in the movies?
Just why do you think immigrants choose America? Freedom? Most come from countries where ordinary people have as much or more personal freedom than they will have in the USA. It's pretty obvious why Mexicans come here, and it is certainly not for more personal freedom than they have in Mexico. The number of immigrants from other countries is very small, and the majority are people who are already rich and educated professionals.
Where on earth did you ever get the idea that I don't like living in America? Or that for anyone who thinks that America can or should recognize or improve its shortcomings, the only logical choice for them is to just leave. If you don't like living in a country where people are free to criticize without being told to get out, why don't YOU just leave?
Beside, Americans can't just leave---no country will accept them, because they know perfectly well that anyone wanting to immigrate from the USA is just coming there to take advantage of their civilized health care. Millions of Americans would leave, if there were any country that would admit them, but there isn't. We're trapped here.
Your sarcasm is not obvious. This is evident by the fact that BigCityDreamer, Thomas R. and I all took you seriously, perhaps you should make it more obvious as it's hard to detect from reading a post. And i never said that I thought that you yourself thought that Americans believe that they live like they do in movies. You said, "The really funny part is that Americans also believe that that is how Americans live." and I just responded to your statement, but didn't mention you personally at all.
I never said anything regarding freedom and immigrants. Yes, Mexico is our #1 source of immigration, but the numbers from other countries aren't that small either.
Well, one can only assume that you dislike the US from your comments. You have seemingly nothing positive to say about the US. Yes, the US is no where near perfect, but it's a lot better than a lot of places. If one is going to point out the nation's flaws in order to better it, then one should offer some kind of alternatives or solutions and constructive criticism and not just throw out negative things. I also never stated that I didn't like living in a country where people are free to criticize without being told to get out, however, like I said I assumed you didn't like it (I apologize for my assumption, but like I said, one would never know given your comments). Furthermore, I NEVER told you to get out. I merely asked you a question because I was curious (as I stated the first time I asked it) because I thought you didn't like it.
That's an exaggeration as well imo. I've lived in multiple countries in Europe as well as Japan &, with the exception of Japan, I could have stayed and became a citizen easily if I desired too. We're hardly "trapped" here, it's not North Korea.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I already see the proportion of migrants from the PRC to Australia increasing year after year. Especially since Rudd strengthened our already strong economic ties, I expect to see them coming into Australia in large numbers. I guess within 50 years or so Australia will be virtually part of Asia.
LOL enough with the comments jtur, entirely non-sequitur. And your sarcasm is anything but obvious, especially typed. In person may be different.
I saw this article a while back. I think the wealthy Chinese who say they want to leave know that at the end of the day they're profiting from a massive spending bubble that is due to pop anytime soon and when it does, the authoritarian government will stop at nothing to repatriate all the wealth. They still have something like 750 million in the countryside who lag in terms of development, so if the fit hits the shan, and they start to revolt, guess what happens! Survey says, ding ding ding! Revolution.
Chinese leadership know this all too well. So, if things get bad, they'll simply arrest the wealthy on trumped up charges, repatriate the money and the factories (as well as all the foreign companies), and claim all its debts invalid. They're like children with too much bling. The wealthy there know this and want to get out before its too late.
LOL enough with the comments jtur, entirely non-sequitur. And your sarcasm is anything but obvious, especially typed. In person may be different.
Yes, sarcasm is rather hard to do in online forums. Sometimes if you italicize or use quotes it can kind of make it clearer. I've heard that in forums that allow the type to be in different colors "teal" is considered a sarcastic color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve
I saw this article a while back. I think the wealthy Chinese who say they want to leave know that at the end of the day they're profiting from a massive spending bubble that is due to pop anytime soon and when it does, the authoritarian government will stop at nothing to repatriate all the wealth. They still have something like 750 million in the countryside who lag in terms of development, so if the fit hits the shan, and they start to revolt, guess what happens! Survey says, ding ding ding! Revolution.
That might be a little over-dramatic, but I've heard there is some rioting in rural China they're keeping under wraps from the press. The dissatisfaction of peasants is a traditional source of revolt in China. Although I think the peasants are generally better off than they were 20-30 years ago so that keeps a lid on it a little.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve
Chinese leadership know this all too well. So, if things get bad, they'll simply arrest the wealthy on trumped up charges, repatriate the money and the factories (as well as all the foreign companies), and claim all its debts invalid. They're like children with too much bling. The wealthy there know this and want to get out before its too late.
Could be. Again it seems a bit over-dramatic, but if enough resentment builds up they might at least arrest some of the wealthy or radically increase taxes. Rich people nowadays are maybe more mobile, and less loyal to any individual nation, than at almost any point. So they may leave if the climate gets sufficiently hostile, even if "sufficiently hostile", isn't as far as "mass arrests and confiscations."
Still somehow this feels potentially too dramatic. I would think a combination of push/pull factors of a less dramatic sort could be influential. Judging by what it sounds pollution, unsafe food, one-child policy, and authoritarianism might be sufficient as "push" factors making some Chinese want to leave. A big "pull" factor, which this confirms, is that education in many Western countries is of higher quality than most Chinese schools. Sure Shanghai scored above about everyone in some recent study, but that's just one city in China. By one measure Taiwan has more top-ranked Asian universities than the PRC, with non-Asian nations having more still.
Ranking Web of World universities: Top Asia (http://www.webometrics.info/top100_continent.asp?cont=asia - broken link)
Another factor being that richer Chinese are likely going to be more aware of other countries than poorer Chinese and have more resources to leave with if they desire. China is still a fairly restrained society, but people are aware of the rest of the world in a way the Chinese of even a generation ago may not have.
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