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Bopomofo is easy to use for typing as well. Taiwanese keyboards all have bopomofo and Cangjie characters on them. I can type in bopomofo way faster than I type in English.
And I don't get the argument of having to learn another 37 characters. One has to memorise a bunch of Kana and Cyrillic alphabets in order to learn Japanese and Russian as well. Alphabet is just one side of the learning process, if one doesn't even want to get used to the basics, why bother learning a new language at all?
Latin alphabets are pronounced differently in every language, but the problem with pinyin system is that it only borrowed them from the English language for the sake of...idk, not having to come up with something better cause it was too much of a hassle? It's inherently different from how English, French, German, Dutch, Italian etc. have evolved variously through history.
Well, maybe you're just used to it, but typing using bopomofo is really difficult for someone not used to it. There's also no available keyboards outside of Taiwan with bopomofo and Cangjie marks. I find Cangjie even worse than bopomofo anyway.
I can read bopomofo just because I learned it at a younger age, but it can't be compared to an alphabet because it's just a phonetic aid/pronunciation guide, similar to furigana for Japanese. Not all alphabets or writing methods have the same difficulty level as well. I would rank bopomofo similar to katakana in learning difficulty, but it's much less useful or necessary compared to katakana in Japanese. By comparison, the easiest alphabet in East Asia is Korean Hangul. I was actually able to learn it by comparing Hangul to its romanized version from a 3-day tour in Korea, without any formal learning. Because I learned it at an older age, I can only read hiragana and katakana after about 2 weeks in a Japanese class. I tried to learn the Thai alphabet and just gave up on it after 2 weeks without retaining anything.
Anyway, I do agree with you that traditional Chinese characters are aesthetically pleasing while simplified characters are not. However, bopomofo is not necessary and just makes Chinese more difficult to learn for those who are not exposed to it regularly or at a young age. I did get to learn it in the past, but just by reading a mainland Chinese dictionary, pinyin took me like 2 hours to learn, after knowing bopomofo already. Since I look up Chinese characters using an electronic dictionary now that has both traditional and simplified characters, but with pinyin pronunciation guide, my knowledge of bopomofo is almost kind of useless now.
I find it unbelievable that you'd say that there's not much difference between the simplified 讓 and the other two versions. Anyone, even those who have zero knowledge about the language, can tell that the strokes of the first one are significantly less than the other two.
And since you're bringing 篆文 into discussion, I think it's pretty obvious that the traditional version bears a stronger resemblance to it than simplified one.
As you have already accepted simplified characters, 繁體, why wouldn't you accept more simplified characters, 简体? If you want traditional characters, you should teach yourself and others 甲骨文
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
I find pinyin really lame cause it often doesn't make any sense, as the English pronunciation of Latin characters don't always match that of Mandarin.
English? Well, your statement reminds me something happened in Taiwan.
There was an Italian guy, who was filling in an application form at school, gave deep sigh when he read a line:
English name:
Why should an Italian has an English name? Italian name is not enough? Taiwanese tend not to realize there are many languages on this planet rather than English.
Pinyin has nothing to do with English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
For example, 青's pinyin is something like "qing" and that's such bull****(unless people in China pronounce it like that which I don't think is the case); 日's pinyin is a bizarre "ri" which is just ****ing laughable. However, bopomofo was specifically designed for Mandarin back in the beginning of the 20th century, and since it's a tailored system, it fits a lot better.
You can't tell us why bopomofo is better. This is what I understand from your comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
All in all, frankly speaking, bopomofo works like Kana in Japanese, while pinyin feels like some random dumb **** borrowed from the English language.
Bopomofo is easy to use for typing as well. Taiwanese keyboards all have bopomofo and Cangjie characters on them. I can type in bopomofo way faster than I type in English.
I use 無暇咪 for 繁體, which is much better than bopomofo, and pinyin for 简体. There are a lot of people who use 五笔 for 简体 in China.
And I believe those who use 五笔/無暇咪/Cangjie can type way faster than you can with bopomofo, and I can type with pinyin as fast as you can with bopomofo.
Sorry but bopomofo has no advantages here, again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
Latin alphabets are pronounced differently in every language, but the problem with pinyin system is that it only borrowed them from the English language for the sake of...idk, not having to come up with something better cause it was too much of a hassle? It's inherently different from how English, French, German, Dutch, Italian etc. have evolved variously through history.
Turkish used to be written in Arabic alphabets, and now in Latin alphabets. Where did they borrow the system? Well, they invented the system.
Pinyin was designed exclusively for Chinese, just like bopomofo was.
As you have already accepted simplified characters, 繁體, why wouldn't you accept more simplified characters, 简体? If you want traditional characters, you should teach yourself and others 甲骨文
Accept my ass.
I think traditional characters are better, simplified ones are fugly, if you love the latter so much then keep using it. None of my ****ing business.
And you seem to be under some inaccurate impression that 篆書 or 甲骨文 is what ancient China had been using until contemporary era, which couldn't be further from the reality.
Quote:
English? Well, your statement reminds me something happened in Taiwan.
There was an Italian guy, who was filling in an application form at school, gave deep sigh when he read a line:
English name:
Why should an Italian has an English name? Italian name is not enough? Taiwanese tend not to realize there are many languages on this planet rather than English.
Pinyin has nothing to do with English.
You obviously didn't get my point at all. Pinyin has nothing to deal with English? What a crock of ****. Pinyin is based on Roman/Latin alphabets and the phonetics follow English. Get your facts straight.
Quote:
You can't tell us why bopomofo is better. This is what I understand from your comments.
You asked me why I think bopomofo is better, I gave you my answer. If you think it sucks so much than don't use it, nobody's asking you to. I honestly DGAF.
I use 無暇咪 for 繁體, which is much better than bopomofo, and pinyin for 简体. There are a lot of people who use 五笔 for 简体 in China.
And I believe those who use 五笔/無暇咪/Cangjie can type way faster than you can with bopomofo, and I can type with pinyin as fast as you can with bopomofo.
Sorry but bopomofo has no advantages here, again.
Turkish used to be written in Arabic alphabets, and now in Latin alphabets. Where did they borrow the system? Well, they invented the system.
Pinyin was designed exclusively for Chinese, just like bopomofo was.
How different? No differences at all.
Oh so now you know how fast I can type? What you have some sort of secret camera set up in my room?
I'm not interested in arguing with someone who makes stupid speculations and can't get the most basic facts straight. Whatever, carry on.
And you seem to be under some inaccurate impression that 篆書 or 甲骨文 is what ancient China had been using until contemporary era, which couldn't be further from the reality.
Well, no one said that.
I wonder why you ONLY accept so-called traditional Chinese, and refuse everything else, including 篆書, 甲骨文 or so-called simplified Chinese.
To my eyes, all of them are merely variations of Chinese characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
You obviously didn't get my point at all. Pinyin has nothing to deal with English? What a crock of ****. Pinyin is based on Roman/Latin alphabets and the phonetics follow English. Get your facts straight.
Say, /da/ in Pinyin has nothing to do with /da/ in English.
I remember one of my teachers in university (in Taiwan) was very proud of how his surname spelled Chow = 周, was pronounced correctly by an American student. It's Zhou in Pinyin.
BTW, Tongyong Pinyinwas the official Romanization of Mandarin Chinese in the Republic of China (ROC) (Taiwan) between 2002 and 2008. The system was unofficially used between 2000 and 2002, when a new romanization system for the Republic of China was being evaluated for adoption. The ROC's Ministry of Education approved the system in 2002[1][2] but its use was not mandatory. Since January 1, 2009, Tongyong Pinyin is no longer official, due to the Ministry of Education's approval of Hanyu Pinyin on September 16, 2008.
I'm not fluent in speaking or writing Chinese, but I don't think they should change back and regardless I don't think the government would do it anyway. Mandarin and simplified Chinese will continue to become more dominant in overseas Chinese communities as more mainland Chinese immigrate and study abroad. In many Chinatowns Cantonese and traditional writing are most common, but that is changing. It's just a matter of time no matter ones opinion. Get with the times and realize simplified is the future. Taiwan and likely Hong Kong will try to hold onto their traditional writing systems, I believe it's part of their identity and that's why they don't want it to change, but it's just a matter of time honestly. I know that's not a popular perspective considering most Chinese on here are from Hong Kong or Taiwan, but that's my opinion.
I'm not fluent in speaking or writing Chinese, but I don't think they should change back and regardless I don't think the government would do it anyway. Mandarin and simplified Chinese will continue to become more dominant in overseas Chinese communities as more mainland Chinese immigrate and study abroad. In many Chinatowns Cantonese and traditional writing are most common, but that is changing. It's just a matter of time no matter ones opinion. Get with the times and realize simplified is the future. Taiwan and likely Hong Kong will try to hold onto their traditional writing systems, I believe it's part of their identity and that's why they don't want it to change, but it's just a matter of time honestly. I know that's not a popular perspective considering most Chinese on here are from Hong Kong or Taiwan, but that's my opinion.
I agree with what you said, except that Taiwan will abandon Traditional Chinese.
Although I don't think Traditional Chinese is superior to Simplified one, however, I hope Taiwan keep it.
Some simplified characters do not make a lot of sense and should be changed back (or re-designed). However this issue has been highly politicized and China government will not do that.
I think the simplified ones should look similar enough to the traditional ones, so there will not be any steep learning curve for both parties.
Pinyin is not only borrowed from Enlgish. 'c' is from German, for example, and 'zh' is from Russian.
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