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Old 04-06-2015, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,435,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
Why do the Japanese today continue to honor the war criminals? For example in 2013, anime creator Hayao Miyazaki made a film called The Wind Rises, which paints a designer of Japanese warplanes as a hero.
He didn't make the film to honor a war criminal. Hayao Miyazaki is anti-war, Howl's Moving Castle proved that, and The Wind Rises was no different. It might sound cheesy but the film was about a guy who wanted to make planes, not a guy who helped Japanese invasion of China and the Pacific.

Quote:
Did the Japanese then (and still today?) think that they had to use torture to stop their country from being conquered by a foreign power during or after the war, whether it be the USA, USSR, or even Nazi Germany (who started out as their friend)?
But why did they join forces with a WHITE country that promoted WHITE supremacy, to the point of exterminating Jews (who historically were not thought of as white, but the debate about that continues, and is complicated by the fact the Jews in Europe married Europeans) for not being white?
No, they didn't. They were fascists, expansionists, and militarists. They didn't care about races, unlike Germany. They cooperated with Germany because Hitler was also fascist, militarist, and expansionist.

 
Old 04-06-2015, 12:21 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,750,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
This all makes sense and yes, Germany and Japan had a common enemy (the USSR, and both Germany and Japan were enemies of the Russian Empire before that), and while the takeover by communists wasn't official until 1949, China had tensions with Japan before that. But from what I understand, there's no reason Japan couldn't have sided with America instead of Germany... except for perhaps the fact that Japan's culture of emperor worship was incompatible with the American belief in democracy?
In short, western countries did not want Japan to be too powerful.

In 1943, the first lady of China delivered a speech in the US House of Representatives (in English). It's interesting to listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac8zVr8I_Lk
 
Old 04-06-2015, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,435,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
In short, western countries did not want Japan to be too powerful.
Correction: Western countries do/did not want any Asian country to be too powerful, whether it was Japan in the early 1900s, or China in the early 2000s.

It's funny how history repeats itself. China and Russia today are exactly like Japan and Germany 8 decades ago.
 
Old 04-06-2015, 12:28 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,750,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post

It's funny how history repeats itself. China today is exactly like Japan a century ago.
Totally nonsense. China is not invading other Asian countries.
Chinese people or government do not want war either.
 
Old 04-06-2015, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,435,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Totally nonsense. China is not invading other Asian countries.
Chinese people or government do not want war either.
Not happening, but will happen.
 
Old 04-06-2015, 12:30 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,750,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Not happening, but will happen.
In your dream.. and you can't use dreams as premises.
 
Old 04-06-2015, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,853,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
He didn't make the film to honor a war criminal. Hayao Miyazaki is anti-war, Howl's Moving Castle proved that, and The Wind Rises was no different. It might sound cheesy but the film was about a guy who wanted to make planes, not a guy who helped Japanese invasion of China and the Pacific.


No, they didn't. They were fascists, expansionists, and militarists. They didn't care about races, unlike Germany. They cooperated with Germany because Hitler was also fascist, militarist, and expansionist.
^ This.

In the film, the main character finds aircraft to be beautiful and thus strives to create beautiful things. As Japan descends into imperialism, he wrestles with the fact that the planes he designs are being used for war, and the very end of the film addresses that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Ten years later, in the summer of 1945, Japan has lost World War II and has been devastated by numerous air raids. Jiro again dreams of meeting Caproni, telling him he regrets his aircraft were used for war. A group of Zeros fly past and their pilots salute Jiro. "Not a single one returned," Jiro sadly remarks. Caproni comforts him, saying Jiro's dream of building beautiful aircraft was nonetheless realized, though they are ultimately "beautiful, cursed dreams waiting for the sky to swallow them up."[17] Nahoko appears, exhorting her husband to live his life to the fullest.
Miyazaki is well-known to be a pacifist, and his company also produced Grave Of The Fireflies, which was a really touching and heartbreaking film that depicted wartime Japan in a stark and negative light. There was another well-known manga and anime, Barefoot Gen, which depicts life in wartime Hiroshima leading up to the atomic bombing, and the after-effects of it on the people of Hiroshima. Barefoot Gen is particularly critical of wartime Japan and its actions against the rest of Asia; one of the central characters is a Korean neighbor who was forcibly relocated to Japan and is treated horribly. The children wrestle with being taught that Koreans are sub-human, but admiring the kindness of their neighbor and not understanding why people hate him. Their father laments the stupidity of the war and the atrocities that the Japanese are committing against other peoples. In Grave of the Fireflies, the boy who is the main protagonist is in many ways an allegory to wartime Japan - emboldened after early successes, he becomes obstinate and stubborn, refusing to change his direction to suit the reality changing around him, which ultimately leads to his little sister's death, and finally, his own.

These movies humanize the Japanese people who were just that; people who through whatever twist of fate were born in Japan during that time period. I don't think that this is a bad thing. The Japanese Empire did some amazingly sick and twisted things during the war, and of course, these things should be acknowledged, of course. But to make this topic off-limits, or always react to them with anger, finger-pointing, and a reminder that the IJA/IJN did sick things to the rest of the world is to strip out the humanity from the Japanese civilians who were basically along for the ride and by-and-large had no idea of the atrocities that were being committed, many if not most of whom had been brainwashed by spiritual nationalism. If anything, it is important to explore these themes and present them in a way that average people can understand, so that they are better-equipped to see analogues in today's world.
 
Old 04-06-2015, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,435,567 times
Reputation: 7413
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
^ This.

In the film, the main character finds aircraft to be beautiful and thus strives to create beautiful things. As Japan descends into imperialism, he wrestles with the fact that the planes he designs are being used for war, and the very end of the film addresses that.



Miyazaki is well-known to be a pacifist, and his company also produced Grave Of The Fireflies, which was a really touching and heartbreaking film that depicted wartime Japan in a stark and negative light. There was another well-known manga and anime, Barefoot Gen, which depicts life in wartime Hiroshima leading up to the atomic bombing, and the after-effects of it on the people of Hiroshima. Barefoot Gen is particularly critical of wartime Japan and its actions against the rest of Asia; one of the central characters is a Korean neighbor who was forcibly relocated to Japan and is treated horribly. The children wrestle with being taught that Koreans are sub-human, but admiring the kindness of their neighbor and not understanding why people hate him. Their father laments the stupidity of the war and the atrocities that the Japanese are committing against other peoples. In Grave of the Fireflies, the boy who is the main protagonist is in many ways an allegory to wartime Japan - emboldened after early successes, he becomes obstinate and stubborn, refusing to change his direction to suit the reality changing around him, which ultimately leads to his little sister's death, and finally, his own.

These movies humanize the Japanese people who were just that; people who through whatever twist of fate were born in Japan during that time period. I don't think that this is a bad thing. The Japanese Empire did some amazingly sick and twisted things during the war, and of course, these things should be acknowledged, of course. But to make this topic off-limits, or always react to them with anger, finger-pointing, and a reminder that the IJA/IJN did sick things to the rest of the world is to strip out the humanity from the Japanese civilians who were basically along for the ride and by-and-large had no idea of the atrocities that were being committed, many if not most of whom had been brainwashed by spiritual nationalism. If anything, it is important to explore these themes and present them in a way that average people can understand, so that they are better-equipped to see analogues in today's world.
Yay for another Miyazaki fan!
 
Old 04-06-2015, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,853,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Many people in Japan still do not think they were wrong in WWII. Many of them also believe they are superior to other Asians. China and Korea certainly do not like that and always fight back,
I don't disagree with your analysis of Japan's mentality in the lead-up to WW2, but as far as this goes, it's a two-way street. Sure, there are Japanese people who think that they are superior to other Asians, but the Chinese aren't much better in this regard, and the Koreans really aren't any better. At this point, I think that a sense of ethnic/national/cultural/racial (as the Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese often view themselves to be a separate race from other Asians) superiority is probably stronger than it is in either China or Japan.

One big reason for Japan's shift to the right over the last decade is the stronger anti-Japanese stance coming from China. Contrary to what many people say, Japan has officially apologized for its actions in WW2 repeatedly: List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... and for quite some time, the PRC and Japan had pretty good overall relations with plenty of economic cooperation, even in the 1950's, following WW2 and despite the rise to power of the anti-Western CCP. Despite a drop during the Cultural Revolution, for most of the 50's-90's and into the early 00's, the nations generally got along okay. There was certainly some popular anti-Japanese sentiment among the public, mostly related to WW2, but the government generally encouraged the Chinese people to drop such attitudes and was openly touted their cooperation.

The two big flare-ups that have happened that have damaged their relations recently are a joint US/Japan statement on the Taiwan Strait in '05, which coincided with Koizumi's visits to the Yasukuni shrine. Subsequently, Koizumi's leaving office led to a few years of the governments trying to patch things up, and then over the last few years, the increasingly-heated debate over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, which has led to protests in both nations and has caused both governments to take a cooler stance towards one another.

From the Japanese side, the Chinese anger over Koizumi was a big hit to their opinion of China. The Japanese opinion on the matter can be summed up well by this quote by a Japanese offical:

Quote:
Originally Posted by above Wikipedia article
Some in the Japanese government have expressed exasperation at what level of apology is enough. During an impending visit in 1990 to Japan by Korean president Roh Tae Woo Japanese cabinet secretary Ozawa Ichiro reportedly said, "it is because we have reflected on the past that we cooperate with Korea economically. Is it really necessary to grovel on our hands and knees and prostrate ourselves any more than we already have?"
China has increased it naval presence in the region and is certainly attempting to take a tougher stance and power its way into control of islands and atolls that have been under the auspices of other nations for quite some time - no one can credibly dispute this. This has fueled frustration towards China from Japan and, indeed, most of the rest of Asia. During the times where Japan and China got along, the Senkaku/Diaoyu debate was largely a non-issue, with China affirming Japan's ownership of the islands numerous times through numerous means:

Senkaku Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
There are many official maps published by both Chinas after 1945 that support they did not recognize their sovereignty over the islands and they recognized the islands as Japanese territory. PRC has been cracking down on erroneous maps in both print and digital forms and government agencies have handled 1,800 cases involving map irregularities and confiscated 750,000 maps since 2005. The National Administration of Surveying, Mapping and Geoinformation said "as China is involved in several disputes with neighboring countries, it is vital to raise public awareness of the country's due territory."
With this most recent flare-up, I think both sides have dug in their heels: China wants more from Japan, and Japan doesn't want to give anything more. I hope that the hostility between the two countries ends soon, but I don't necessarily see how that will happen.
 
Old 04-06-2015, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,435,567 times
Reputation: 7413
The Senkaku Islands dispute is nothing more than CCP's manipulation of their own people, it's utterly laughable. They claim this and that to 'release' and transfer their internal pressure and dissatisfaction, and the Chinese actually fall for it, lol.

Quote:
I don't disagree with your analysis of Japan's mentality in the lead-up to WW2, but as far as this goes, it's a two-way street. Sure, there are Japanese people who think that they are superior to other Asians, but the Chinese aren't much better in this regard, and the Koreans really aren't any better. At this point, I think that a sense of ethnic/national/cultural/racial (as the Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese often view themselves to be a separate race from other Asians) superiority is probably stronger than it is in either China or Japan.
And I wholeheartedly agree with this. Nationalism is at a toxic level in all three.

Last edited by Greysholic; 04-06-2015 at 02:15 AM..
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