Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
you implied the possibility of china "start(ing) occupying some real island off borneo or screw with shipping it's game over.". He pointed out that China will not be stupid enough to mess with merchant ships because it would harm China's national interest the most.
The whole point of controlling the Malacca is to ensure ships will pass freely to East Asia. The US controlling of it is a threat to China, while China's potential controlling of it is not a threat to the US by any means. And you enlighten me, why does the US have to control the strait thousands of miles away from its homeland?
OK then - first paragraph, agree. But I covered that didn't I? China - war is bad for business (everyone thinks war here - shortsighted thinking - war is just one tool in a nations tool chest to increase influence and power). You know what really interests China and these countries? Not what's above these waters (yeah they can build airstrips on coral reefs, but that's not the real issue) but below it - oil! Still, the control of a vital stretch of water by one sole power is risky - other nations such as Japan and Korea depend on it as well - because they can use it as economic leverage.
Second paragraph - Confused here - the straights of Malacca are controlled by Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore except for maybe a few areas that might be in international waters. The US I don't think patrol these waters, although I understand they have a pirate problem. But again, it's a sensitive area for China because, again for economic leverage short of a shooting war, the US CAN expand our influence to shut that channel off if needed.
OK then - first paragraph, agree. But I covered that didn't I? China - war is bad for business (everyone thinks war here - shortsighted thinking - war is just one tool in a nations tool chest to increase influence and power). You know what really interests China and these countries? Not what's above these waters (yeah they can build airstrips on coral reefs, but that's not the real issue) but below it - oil! Still, the control of a vital stretch of water by one sole power is risky - other nations such as Japan and Korea depend on it as well - because they can use it as economic leverage.
Second paragraph - Confused here - the straights of Malacca are controlled by Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore except for maybe a few areas that might be in international waters. The US I don't think patrol these waters, although I understand they have a pirate problem. But again, it's a sensitive area for China because, again for economic leverage short of a shooting war, the US CAN expand our influence to shut that channel off if needed.
I agree neither China nor the US wants a war, which is why a war won't happen despite what China is doing in the SCS. All those small countries, I don't think that matters - they can't do much without US help, and the US won't do anything drastic just to make the Philippines happy. It will keep criticizing though. '
Although the US doesn't directly control the strait, it can easily blockade Chinese merchant shipping if it wants to, and China simple lacks the naval power necessary to protect its sea lanes. High dependence on the straits which the PRC has no way to secure worries the government - there is probably an element of paranoia for China, but it is nevertheless a legitimate concern, similar to the US wanting security at the Strait of Hormuz. How will Washington think if Iran can close the strait anytime it wants?
OK then - first paragraph, agree. But I covered that didn't I? China - war is bad for business (everyone thinks war here - shortsighted thinking - war is just one tool in a nations tool chest to increase influence and power). You know what really interests China and these countries? Not what's above these waters (yeah they can build airstrips on coral reefs, but that's not the real issue) but below it - oil! Still, the control of a vital stretch of water by one sole power is risky - other nations such as Japan and Korea depend on it as well - because they can use it as economic leverage.
Second paragraph - Confused here - the straights of Malacca are controlled by Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore except for maybe a few areas that might be in international waters. The US I don't think patrol these waters, although I understand they have a pirate problem. But again, it's a sensitive area for China because, again for economic leverage short of a shooting war, the US CAN expand our influence to shut that channel off if needed.
I think you are overestimating US war capability, and thirst for war with China. It's very common on these forums, it seems like, for Americans to flex their military muscle, which is a fool's errand. There will not be a a shooting between the US or any Asian country. Not now, not in the future. US forces are stretched far too thin to be effective against China. The US trying to play military games will destabilize the entire region, and I guarantee you that China will sic it's attack dog, North Korea, onto South Korea at that time. North Korea is China's insurance policy against US aggression. It'd do you tea partiers well to remember that
I think you are overestimating US war capability, and thirst for war with China. It's very common on these forums, it seems like, for Americans to flex their military muscle, which is a fool's errand. There will not be a a shooting between the US or any Asian country. Not now, not in the future. US forces are stretched far too thin to be effective against China. The US trying to play military games will destabilize the entire region, and I guarantee you that China will sic it's attack dog, North Korea, onto South Korea at that time. North Korea is China's insurance policy against US aggression. It'd do you tea partiers well to remember that
Is that how you interpreted my statement? - war is bad for business (everyone thinks war here - shortsighted thinking - war is just one tool in a nations tool chest to increase influence and power). How strange, is my writing really that unclear? This is like the second time....
It's a silly concept, I go to China several times a year, my coworkers work there. I am on record here in these forums as saying in several threads that a war with China is about as likely as the Zombie Apocolypse.
North Korea is not China's attack dog, it's more like their crazy uncle.
What's with the tea partier comment? Perhaps you took a wrong turn when leaving the P&C forum.
One thing many people don't get is the US won't go to war even if China does something dramatic in terms of SCS. It serves no purpose and as a democracy it won't be supported (to spend billions to engage in a war on area that doesn't really concern the US?). And it probably can't afford it either.
And unlike Russia or Iran, China can't be easily sanctioned. Its economy is too strong and diverse, and too intertwined with the rest of the world to the extent that many multinationals and even countries' livelihood depend on a strong Chinese economy.
Of course China is very unlikely to invade or annex anyone because such political uncertain doesn't serve its interest either, but its expansion in SCS will not stop, and chances are that it will get what it wants eventually (with the support of most of its citizens), and nobody is able to stop it. The US, the EU won't just out of some vague moral responsibility.
It is just like the US was able to do anything it wanted post WWII no matter it is reasonable or not. Power talks.
occupation of Hong Kong and Macau? What drug did you take today? Aren't they always part of China?
And colonize Africa and Latin America? Explain how China doing business with those countries constitutes colonization while Europe/US doing business is just business? Which African and Latin American countries complained that they are colonized? Or it is just some sort of habitual CNN style mindless propaganda?
China claims land on Taiwan, Philippines, Japan Vietnam? What are you even talking about? What land?
Criticizing China is fine, but at least don't insult others by putting together all these ridiculous claims that make absolutely no sense.
Why are you arguing with these people? No one is really going to stop or can stop China from doing what it wants.
The world must unite against China's aggression now before it's too late.
When the West lost the Korean War and Vietnam War, it became too late to stop China. In both conflicts, it was Chinese military aid that decided the outcome of both wars.
The world must unite against China's aggression now before it's too late.
yeah, the world as one know it has a great track record of "uniting" against and for anything. Before you decide to be all against China, you have to consider the pros and cons for each nation from a policy perspective, because each country will consider only its own interest in making such decision: is it worth it? Do I have more to gain or lose by having a weak China? For countries such as Singapore or Australia, do you think they want a strong Chinese economy or a collapsing one? Even nations like the UK are playing soft ball by avoiding confrontation with Beijing nowadays because they know by giving China what it wants, they will have a net gain in return. And they learned it the hard way.
And China is not North Korea or Syria. Although it is authoritarian in nature, it is largely stable, pragmatic, open and business oriented. Nowadays China as we know it is more capitalist and free market than France or Canada. With increasingly economic power, it wants more influence and security in its own backyard, and I am afraid western powers will have no choice but to allow it. History always works like that, and we should be thankful that it is China, not Russia or something worse.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
