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Old 06-26-2015, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Mount of Showing the Way
1,946 posts, read 2,564,548 times
Reputation: 615

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Old 06-26-2015, 09:37 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,720,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
God forbid the world progresses...
Progress is good, but it also needs to be fair.
You can't, after causing 90% of the world's existing pollution, say now let's stop polluting the world (since I am done with it and am a rich country now).

Additionally, countries like US, Canada and Australia still have a much larger carbon footprint per person than China, possible 4 times more. So they don't get to say you pollute too much just because they have smaller population. In all fairness, each person in the world should be allowed to cause the same GHG irrespective where they live.

Further more, while exporting all the polluting industries to developing countries and only importing the finished products, rich nations are causing much of the pollution too. Not in their backyard but they are still responsible for that.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 743,521 times
Reputation: 302
I hate to break this to everyone but the US itself refuses to sign the UNCLOS - (the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.) itself.
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:47 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,720,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
I hate to break this to everyone but the US itself refuses to sign the UNCLOS - (the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.) itself.
When did it ever matter to US politicians or their foreign policy rhetoric's? They grab whatever works for them at the moment from their imagined moral high horse most of the time. Stuff like international law is only used when it works for them, and abandoned like garbage when it goes against what they want to do.
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:52 PM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,133,498 times
Reputation: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
When did it ever matter to US politicians or their foreign policy rhetoric's? They grab whatever works for them at the moment from their imagined moral high horse most of the time. Stuff like international law is only used when it works for them, and abandoned like garbage when it goes against what they want to do.
I will get criticized for saying this but China represents close to 66% of East Asia's population so I think that alone should give them higher priority in regards to the matters in the South China Sea. China for all intent and purposes IS East Asia because the vast majority of Asians in East Asia are Chinese nationals. I find it funny how people say democracy is predominant in East Asia when in reality over 66% of East Asia's population lives under some kind of authoritarian rule.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,858,983 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Progress is good, but it also needs to be fair.
You can't, after causing 90% of the world's existing pollution, say now let's stop polluting the world (since I am done with it and am a rich country now).
Wait, so, progress needs to be fair, but, it's OK for China to act unfairly towards the Philippines, Vietnam, etc?

You only seem to care about "fairness" when it benefits China.

Maybe the "rich" countries in the world realize the damage that was done due to their previous practices and that is why they don't want other nations to engage in that behavior?

Quote:
Additionally, countries like US, Canada and Australia still have a much larger carbon footprint per person than China, possible 4 times more. So they don't get to say you pollute too much just because they have smaller population. In all fairness, each person in the world should be allowed to cause the same GHG irrespective where they live.
It goes well beyond carbon footprints. Carbon emissions don't tell the whole story. The amount of pollutants that China puts in its waterways and allows to seep directly into its groundwater is unlike anything in the West for quite some time. The technologies exist to prevent this pollution from occurring, and lord knows China has the raw cash for it, as you would most likely be the first to point out. But, no... "neener neener, we're just doing what yoooooooooou did (a hundred years ago), hahahaha. Foolish Western hypocrites!"

Quote:
Further more, while exporting all the polluting industries to developing countries and only importing the finished products, rich nations are causing much of the pollution too. Not in their backyard but they are still responsible for that.
I'm not denying that. I think that the exporting of North American and European industry overseas and shifting to a service- and speculative investment-based economy was one of the biggest mistakes that the West made for themselves and for the world. I don't fault China or other nations for taking advantage of these mistakes and becoming rich in the process - I am, by proxy, also becoming rich off these stupid decisions as I grow my business in China and am making 20x its national average. But, there's no point in being contrary and obtuse and acting as though adopting behaviors that other nations have left behind, such as rampant pollution and increasing belligerence to neighboring countries, suddenly makes China more glorious or that the world hasn't changed in the time that Western nations have stopped or taken steps to slow down these behaviors. All the same that the West threw out a big chunk of its future when it sent its manufacturing abroad, China is throwing out a big chunk of its future with the way it is treating itself right now.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,858,983 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
I hate to break this to everyone but the US itself refuses to sign the UNCLOS - (the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.) itself.
Yup, it doesn't benefit the US to sign it.

Until the US' allies started making a fuss about it and asked for (or demanded) help, the US didn't really care all that much, and its efforts to maintain hegemony in the SCS aren't really all that severe. It knows that if China wants to exert its control over the waterways, it can't do a whole hell of a lot without resorting to a massive standoff; it also knows that at the end of the day, Chinese products will still get to US shores to be sold on its shelves, which is actually its biggest concern. Fly a plane over an island, park a ship somewhere, appease your friends, and call it a day.
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Old 06-27-2015, 04:39 AM
 
1,141 posts, read 2,202,970 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
I will get criticized for saying this but China represents close to 66% of East Asia's population so I think that alone should give them higher priority in regards to the matters in the South China Sea. China for all intent and purposes IS East Asia because the vast majority of Asians in East Asia are Chinese nationals. I find it funny how people say democracy is predominant in East Asia when in reality over 66% of East Asia's population lives under some kind of authoritarian rule.
The South China Sea is not even in East Asia. It is in Southeast Asia. Just because China has the largest population does not mean it should control the whole region either. Should China claim 90% of the Sea of Japan between Korea and Japan just because they're the most populous country in the region? Of all the countries around the South China Sea, China has among the least coastline. It is claiming uninhabited islands that are only few hundred km from the nearest inhabited coast of other countries while it is thousands of km from the Chinese coastline.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,644 posts, read 16,027,294 times
Reputation: 5286
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Old 06-28-2015, 02:59 PM
 
4 posts, read 3,629 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
The South China Sea is not even in East Asia. It is in Southeast Asia. Just because China has the largest population does not mean it should control the whole region either. Should China claim 90% of the Sea of Japan between Korea and Japan just because they're the most populous country in the region? Of all the countries around the South China Sea, China has among the least coastline. It is claiming uninhabited islands that are only few hundred km from the nearest inhabited coast of other countries while it is thousands of km from the Chinese coastline.
Taiwan occupied uninhabited islands thousands of km from the taiwan coastline and the so call justice fighter taiwanese think that taiwan it has the right to do so.
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