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If America "minded its own business" and took an isolationist stance, the world would fall apart. Its our "nosy" meddling that keeps many grudges in check.
Dear World,
We have decided to heed your calls for nonintervention in Syria as our recent foreign policy has been atrocious. However, it seems like your alternative has not been working out quite well. Unfortunately, Syria's leader continues to slaughter his citizens and use chemical warfare. In addition, his lack of control and comprise, and complete cruelty have contributed to the rise of the ISIS terrorist network and state. This is potentially the most threatening, organized terrorist group in history.
But hey, at least the US did not get involved right? We made the right decision, correct? You won't blame us for this result, promise?
Sincerely,
USA
P.S. Let us know when you really want to see the world burn.
We have decided to heed your calls for nonintervention in Syria as our recent foreign policy has been atrocious. However, it seems like your alternative has not been working out quite well. Unfortunately, Syria's leader continues to slaughter his citizens and use chemical warfare. In addition, his lack of control and comprise, and complete cruelty have contributed to the rise of the ISIS terrorist network and state. This is potentially the most threatening, organized terrorist group in history.
But hey, at least the US did not get involved right? We made the right decision, correct? You won't blame us for this result, promise?
Sincerely,
USA
P.S. Let us know when you really want to see the world burn.
So...ISIS is now Assad's fault? Seriously? Those dictators, no matter how ugly they were, acted as the last and imperfect buffer against Islamic "democracy", which is essentially Isis and their like. Take away these dictators who held the lid on Islamic anger and voila, Isis as an expression of a powerful and popular Islamic expression of popular will.
It's a little more complex than what Japan did or what China is doing now. I'm not excusing our (at times, ruthless) expansion into the Pacific, but there's more to the story. I think it is important to understand that the majority of the Pacific was US governed or within their sphere of influence. The political situation at the time demanded that the US protect its Pacific assets. The Japanese and Germans had showed their intentions of imperialistic conquest (and Pearl Harbor proved US suspicion warranted). The US was the lesser of two evils.
Firstly, US hasn't really expanded in the Pacific since the 19th century. In fact, we actually gave back our most significant piece of the land (Philippines) and it became the first nation liberated by a Western power. Of the waters/land we claimed:
- Guam & the Philippines were handed over from Spain. We weren't making claims on the land, nor were they invaded. It was a treaty and simply handed over. The North Mariana Islands were Spanish, German, and Japanese before being ceded to the US for administrative purpose following WWII. Residents were then able to choose their legal status and relationship with the US.
- A large number of islands were uninhabited and yet to be claimed by other nations, or there was a competing claim no more legitimate than the American one. Fair game.
- The US overthrew 1 government (Hawaii) and claimed 1 inhabited group of islands (American Samoa), but not all of them.
China is claiming territory that is immediately next to other countries' mainlands. This is against widely recognized UN policies and practices dictating maritime boundaries. Most of the claims are in fact extremely ridiculous as they are obviously part of the cluster of islands that comprise the Philippines or right off the Malaysian or Vietnamese coast. The modern nation-state did not exist when the US expanded into the Pacific. There was established sense of US vs. German vs. Ethiopian vs. Hawaiian land. Borders constantly changed and land was considered up for grabs by all groups, not just Western governments.
Let's not forget the most important part, when the United States annexed the Northern Mariana Islands in 1978 it did so with the consent of the people of the Northern Mariana Islands via a referendum monitored by the United Nations. We dident just sail into the harbor and raise Old Glory and announce we are the new rulers like the Chinese did in Tibet, Hong Kong, and Macau. Nobody asked the people of Hong Kong if they wanted to be Chinese, the Chinese bullied the British into handing it over. If the UN held a referendum offering the people of Hong Kong to choice to stay British, become Chinese, or become independent of both and they voted to become Chinese well that's one thing but that's not what happened.
This is hilarious, the Chinese always whine about "Western/US imperialism" ... yet they have become the modern imperial power!
Let's not forget the most important part, when the United States annexed the Northern Mariana Islands in 1978 it did so with the consent of the people of the Northern Mariana Islands via a referendum monitored by the United Nations. We dident just sail into the harbor and raise Old Glory and announce we are the new rulers like the Chinese did in Tibet, Hong Kong, and Macau. Nobody asked the people of Hong Kong if they wanted to be Chinese, the Chinese bullied the British into handing it over. If the UN held a referendum offering the people of Hong Kong to choice to stay British, become Chinese, or become independent of both and they voted to become Chinese well that's one thing but that's not what happened.
This is hilarious, the Chinese always whine about "Western/US imperialism" ... yet they have become the modern imperial power!
There is no country in the world that recognizes any of those places as independent. I will say this once and I will say this again, if China were a pro-Western state this would not be an issue. Taiwan/Republic of China claims Mongolia as part of China and the US is perfectly fine with that claim. The US certainly doesn't have a problem with Turkey controlling Western Armenia/Northern Kurdistan/Eastern Anatolia despite Turkey engaging in a similar form of oppression that the PRC is engaging in. The US also has no problem with Turkey occupying Northern Cyprus (the US even keeps a diplomatic office in the Northern Cyprus region) and creating an unrecognized state out of that occupied region. Israel occupies the Golan Heights, West Bank, and the Gaza Strip for the same reason that China controls Tibet (namely security and water) yet China is condemned while the US supports Israel and rejects any resolution in the UN that condemns Israel for its conduct in those regions. Why is it a problem that China behaves like America's allies?
There is no country in the world that recognizes any of those places as independent. I will say this once and I will say this again, if China were a pro-Western state this would not be an issue. Taiwan/Republic of China claims Mongolia as part of China and the US is perfectly fine with that claim. The US certainly doesn't have a problem with Turkey controlling Western Armenia/Northern Kurdistan/Eastern Anatolia despite Turkey engaging in a similar form of oppression that the PRC is engaging in. The US also has no problem with Turkey occupying Northern Cyprus (the US even keeps a diplomatic office in the Northern Cyprus region) and creating an unrecognized state out of that occupied region. Israel occupies the Golan Heights, West Bank, and the Gaza Strip for the same reason that China controls Tibet (namely security and water) yet China is condemned while the US supports Israel and rejects any resolution in the UN that condemns Israel for its conduct in those regions. Why is it a problem that China behaves like America's allies?
Because Tibetans aren't chopping off people's heads. They just set themselves on fire. Plus, other people need that water.
Israel is suppressing jihadis. Jihadis only understand the sword. Remember what mao said? "Power is in the barrel of gun." He who controls the gun controls the power.
Erdogan is a populist who wants to become a sultan of turkey and recreate the ottaman empire. He's partially to blame of ISIS. I don't even think he cares about US-turkish relations. He's ruining them.
Because Tibetans aren't chopping off people's heads. They just set themselves on fire. Plus, other people need that water.
Israel is suppressing jihadis. Jihadis only understand the sword. Remember what mao said? "Power is in the barrel of gun." He who controls the gun controls the power.
Erdogan is a populist who wants to become a sultan of turkey and recreate the ottaman empire. He's partially to blame of ISIS. I don't even think he cares about US-turkish relations. He's ruining them.
Launching a war (Iraq) that threatens the territorial integrity of a neighboring country (Turkey) will do that. Something that is very familiar in this thread.
So...ISIS is now Assad's fault? Seriously? Those dictators, no matter how ugly they were, acted as the last and imperfect buffer against Islamic "democracy", which is essentially Isis and their like. Take away these dictators who held the lid on Islamic anger and voila, Isis as an expression of a powerful and popular Islamic expression of popular will.
Terrorist networks form/become prominent because:
- Power vacuums
- Oppressive governments/regimes
- Lack of political stability
This is the exact situation that Assad created in his country by suppressing his people and ruling with an iron fist. ISIS rose from the political instability and desperation in Syria and soon took advantage of a comparably fragile situation in nearby Iraq. Was ISIS relevant before the Syrian Civil War? Were they a major importance before the situation in Syria?
No, they were a largely unknown subgroup of Al-Qaeda. They had no territorial controls and limited influence on mainstream Muslims.
There is no country in the world that recognizes any of those places as independent. I will say this once and I will say this again, if China were a pro-Western state this would not be an issue. Taiwan/Republic of China claims Mongolia as part of China and the US is perfectly fine with that claim. The US certainly doesn't have a problem with Turkey controlling Western Armenia/Northern Kurdistan/Eastern Anatolia despite Turkey engaging in a similar form of oppression that the PRC is engaging in. The US also has no problem with Turkey occupying Northern Cyprus (the US even keeps a diplomatic office in the Northern Cyprus region) and creating an unrecognized state out of that occupied region. Israel occupies the Golan Heights, West Bank, and the Gaza Strip for the same reason that China controls Tibet (namely security and water) yet China is condemned while the US supports Israel and rejects any resolution in the UN that condemns Israel for its conduct in those regions. Why is it a problem that China behaves like America's allies?
This argument is so full of holes where to even begin?
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There is no country in the world that recognizes any of those places as independent. I will say this once and I will say this again, if China were a pro-Western state this would not be an issue.
Exactly, Western governments do not recognize them as independent from China. The same policy is applied to Western and non-western governments in this case, so what is your point?
Our main concern is the suppression of people, not the legal status of these places. Two different topics.
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Taiwan/Republic of China claims Mongolia as part of China and the US is perfectly fine with that claim.
Please provide proof that the US supports Taiwan's claim over another sovereign nation. Did the US government explicitly say that they support Taiwanese claims over Mongolia? No. They have only supported current political independence from the mainland.
Just because we support the French government doesn't mean that we supported their forced deportation of illegal Romani citizens. There is a difference between supporting a country and supporting a specific policy. Now please provide proof that the US government is in support of a Taiwanese orchestrated takeover of Mongolia.
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The US certainly doesn't have a problem with Turkey controlling Western Armenia/Northern Kurdistan/Eastern Anatolia despite Turkey engaging in a similar form of oppression that the PRC is engaging in.
What is the alternative? An small, unstable independent government in a region that is being enveloped by a terrorist organization? Believe it or not, despite Turkey's inexcusable actions towards these minorities, the fact that these regions are part of its borders is the only thing keeping them safe from ISIS war zones.
Should Turkey grant independence to these areas? How many months do you think it will take for these areas to be captured or for their governments to falter and give rise to a different terrorist organization?
The sad truth is that Turkey's control of these area is the only thing that keeps it somewhat stable. Otherwise ISIS would already be in western Turkey. It's not a good alternative, but it is the best one.
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The US also has no problem with Turkey occupying Northern Cyprus (the US even keeps a diplomatic office in the Northern Cyprus region) and creating an unrecognized state out of that occupied region.
Ally vs. ally, so the US stays out of it. It's a lose-lose situation, so why should the US take one side? Honestly, what do you expect? Furthermore, your Euro-centric view is inclined to believe that the EU government is the only legitimate one. Who's to say that the Turkish community of Cyprus shouldn't be given more self-rule?
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Israel occupies the Golan Heights, West Bank, and the Gaza Strip for the same reason that China controls Tibet (namely security and water) yet China is condemned while the US supports Israel and rejects any resolution in the UN that condemns Israel for its conduct in those regions. Why is it a problem that China behaves like America's allies
I completely agree with this and am embarrassed by our governments continued tolerance of certain Israeli practices. That being said, consider the alternative of no Israel: Complete anarchy, total instability, limited government, and larger terrorist factions. I'm in no way trying to excuse Israeli government actions, but the existence of the nation of Israel is simply the lessor of two evils.
Terrorist networks form/become prominent because:
- Power vacuums
- Oppressive governments/regimes
- Lack of political stability
This is the exact situation that Assad created in his country by suppressing his people and ruling with an iron fist. ISIS rose from the political instability and desperation in Syria and soon took advantage of a comparably fragile situation in nearby Iraq. Was ISIS relevant before the Syrian Civil War? Were they a major importance before the situation in Syria?
No, they were a largely unknown subgroup of Al-Qaeda. They had no territorial controls and limited influence on mainstream Muslims.
No, sorry. But Assad did not create ISIS. ISIS had already long existed before the mess in Syria happened. ISIS got its start in eastern Libya, in the Benghazi-Derna-Tobruk terror corridor. They were the foot soldiers to topple Qaddafi. When he was overthrown, ISIS came alive. It has nothing to do with Assad. Assad was fighting the Free Syrian Army, which was a homegrown terrorist group that wasn't as radical as ISIS. Then ISIS came to town after the Free Syrian Army lost their ground and came through Egypt after Mubarak fell. Please get your facts straight.
Another little tidbit. You claim that ISIS is the result of oppressive government. Who told you that? Fox News? ISIS is more tyrannical than these dictators. Women have more rights under these so-called dictators than they do in ISIS controlled territories, for one
There is no country in the world that recognizes any of those places as independent. I will say this once and I will say this again, if China were a pro-Western state this would not be an issue. Taiwan/Republic of China claims Mongolia as part of China and the US is perfectly fine with that claim. The US certainly doesn't have a problem with Turkey controlling Western Armenia/Northern Kurdistan/Eastern Anatolia despite Turkey engaging in a similar form of oppression that the PRC is engaging in. The US also has no problem with Turkey occupying Northern Cyprus (the US even keeps a diplomatic office in the Northern Cyprus region) and creating an unrecognized state out of that occupied region. Israel occupies the Golan Heights, West Bank, and the Gaza Strip for the same reason that China controls Tibet (namely security and water) yet China is condemned while the US supports Israel and rejects any resolution in the UN that condemns Israel for its conduct in those regions. Why is it a problem that China behaves like America's allies?
China has only one ruling party that can make very quick and brash decisions to accomplish its goals while disregarding impacts of those decisions. The results can be wonderful if the decisions are well placed but can easily become disastrous.
Mao's goal with his great leap forward campaign was to use agriculture to industrialize China yet an after effect was the starvation and death of tens of millions of Chinese.
Governments need checks and balances. An unchecked single party government tends to overstep on the people it's meant to serve-corruption, human rights violations, lack of personal property, violence, etc.
A cornered single party government that has failed to deliver what it has promised will more likely use violence(at home, and abroad) to maintain power. (WW2 Germany, Japan, Italy,ect)
Communism is meant to spread power across its population but in reality becomes very similar to monarchy's power structure where one person is all powerful.
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