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Old 03-22-2017, 01:02 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
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I live in NYC, which is considered by many the most affluent city in the world. But I do sincerely believe that the living standards in most Chinese cities are higher than in NYC.

Education, health care, public transportation, safety. You name it. For all these measures, CHinese cities fare better than NYC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
You are being pretty generous with your rounding and I feel like you are doing it on purpose to push a view. You have to remember, South Korea and Taiwan, in terms of nominal, are on the very low end for developed nations and I don't consider them very wealthy either. That aside, you are comparing an urban area to two countries with both urban areas and rural areas.

Regardless of that, I will bite. Nominal, GDP per capita in Hangzhou is just under twenty thousand. It is just over twenty seven thousand in South Korea and just under twenty five thousand in Taiwan, meaning the numbers are over 50% higher in South Korea and over 33% higher in Taiwan. Countries, which I will repeat, are on the low end for a developed nation. In purchasing parity, China does very well as closing the gap, but Hangzhou remains behind South Korea and Taiwan, as well as nearly all developed nations outside of Southern and Eastern Europe (although they don't all qualify as developed to begin with).

On top of all those things is China's insane income inequality, which is notably higher than that of most developed nations, exception being the USA, which has inequality almost on par with China. The main difference there being that the mean point is much higher in the USA than China, regardless of whether the numbers (GDP or income) are adjusted for differences in costs. Dealing mostly with the US, I am used to numbers in the 30's to 50's, not 10's and 20's.

Look, I completely agree with you that many "Westerners" underestimate the importance and strength of China's secondary cities (the same happens with the USA's secondary cities from European's POV, though not to the same extent), but I do believe that you are fooling yourself if you believe that the average person in Hangzhou has equivalent or better living standards as an average person in the famous global cities of the West. Unless you are including maybe Eastern Europe and Latin America as part of the West.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:04 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
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international tourism is only important to a small country which obtain most of its foreign currency from tourists. For a big country like China or US, it is not that important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Well i never head a person from LA end their sentences with Eh plus the Canadian has to cross a border where the person from LA doesn't.

You really don't get that domestic tourists are less important for a country than international tourists?
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:08 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
Reputation: 352
As a matter of fact, living standards in those famous western cities are so low. An average New Yorker can barely afford rent for a one bedroom apartment. The same is true for London or Paris. And you call this good living standards? Don't even mention their shabby infrastructures. You pay 3 dollar for a subway ride in NYC. It is the most dirty and unreliable subway system in the world. and you pay 2 Yuan in Hangzhou for a subway ride, which offers one of the best in the world


Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
You are being pretty generous with your rounding and I feel like you are doing it on purpose to push a view. You have to remember, South Korea and Taiwan, in terms of nominal, are on the very low end for developed nations and I don't consider them very wealthy either. That aside, you are comparing an urban area to two countries with both urban areas and rural areas.

Regardless of that, I will bite. Nominal, GDP per capita in Hangzhou is just under twenty thousand. It is just over twenty seven thousand in South Korea and just under twenty five thousand in Taiwan, meaning the numbers are over 50% higher in South Korea and over 33% higher in Taiwan. Countries, which I will repeat, are on the low end for a developed nation. In purchasing parity, China does very well as closing the gap, but Hangzhou remains behind South Korea and Taiwan, as well as nearly all developed nations outside of Southern and Eastern Europe (although they don't all qualify as developed to begin with).

On top of all those things is China's insane income inequality, which is notably higher than that of most developed nations, exception being the USA, which has inequality almost on par with China. The main difference there being that the mean point is much higher in the USA than China, regardless of whether the numbers (GDP or income) are adjusted for differences in costs. Dealing mostly with the US, I am used to numbers in the 30's to 50's, not 10's and 20's.

Look, I completely agree with you that many "Westerners" underestimate the importance and strength of China's secondary cities (the same happens with the USA's secondary cities from European's POV, though not to the same extent), but I do believe that you are fooling yourself if you believe that the average person in Hangzhou has equivalent or better living standards as an average person in the famous global cities of the West. Unless you are including maybe Eastern Europe and Latin America as part of the West.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,982 posts, read 2,077,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
I live in NYC, which is considered by many the most affluent city in the world. But I do sincerely believe that the living standards in most Chinese cities are higher than in NYC.

Education, health care, public transportation, safety. You name it. For all these measures, CHinese cities fare better than NYC
I don't know anyone who considers NYC the most affluent city in the world. Maybe the financial center, if there is one, with London, but that is different from being affluent. Maybe health care, but I am not buying into the rest of that. Since you are the one claiming that most Chinese cities are better than NYC in those categories, can you provide any actual evidence?

How about the other famous, global cities? Paris, Berlin, London? Munich, Vienna, Zurich, I mean, the list goes on, and the US, compared to the other Western countries, to have worse education, health care, public transportation, and safety.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,639 posts, read 15,962,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
I live in NYC, which is considered by many the most affluent city in the world. But I do sincerely believe that the living standards in most Chinese cities are higher than in NYC.

Education, health care, public transportation, safety. You name it. For all these measures, CHinese cities fare better than NYC
What makes you stay in NYC then?
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:30 PM
 
5,722 posts, read 5,783,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
I live in NYC, which is considered by many the most affluent city in the world. But I do sincerely believe that the living standards in most Chinese cities are higher than in NYC.

Education, health care, public transportation, safety. You name it. For all these measures, CHinese cities fare better than NYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
As a matter of fact, living standards in those famous western cities are so low. An average New Yorker can barely afford rent for a one bedroom apartment. The same is true for London or Paris. And you call this good living standards? Don't even mention their shabby infrastructures. You pay 3 dollar for a subway ride in NYC. It is the most dirty and unreliable subway system in the world. and you pay 2 Yuan in Hangzhou for a subway ride, which offers one of the best in the world
That's not standard of living that's cost of living. They might struggle to afford a one bedroom apartment but they are happy they can because that's where they want to live. If they didn't want to live in NYC they would just move.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:21 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
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Paris and London are even worse than NYC. the living cost is high, but average people in London and Paris make much less than New Yorkers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I don't know anyone who considers NYC the most affluent city in the world. Maybe the financial center, if there is one, with London, but that is different from being affluent. Maybe health care, but I am not buying into the rest of that. Since you are the one claiming that most Chinese cities are better than NYC in those categories, can you provide any actual evidence?

How about the other famous, global cities? Paris, Berlin, London? Munich, Vienna, Zurich, I mean, the list goes on, and the US, compared to the other Western countries, to have worse education, health care, public transportation, and safety.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:22 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
Reputation: 352
If my company has other locations for me to choose, I will just pack and leave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
What makes you stay in NYC then?
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:23 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
Reputation: 352
we are comparing the living standards of average working class people. If you are comparing living standards for millionnaires or billionnaires, that is a separate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
That's not standard of living that's cost of living. They might struggle to afford a one bedroom apartment but they are happy they can because that's where they want to live. If they didn't want to live in NYC they would just move.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:25 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 977,834 times
Reputation: 352
NYC has much higher per capita GDP than any of these cities you mentioned, maybe except Zurich.
You are the one who prefer the GDP number.

BTW, I lived in Geneva for some time. The living standards are so so. Geneva would rank higher than all of these cities you mentioned, except Zurich or Vienna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I don't know anyone who considers NYC the most affluent city in the world. Maybe the financial center, if there is one, with London, but that is different from being affluent. Maybe health care, but I am not buying into the rest of that. Since you are the one claiming that most Chinese cities are better than NYC in those categories, can you provide any actual evidence?

How about the other famous, global cities? Paris, Berlin, London? Munich, Vienna, Zurich, I mean, the list goes on, and the US, compared to the other Western countries, to have worse education, health care, public transportation, and safety.
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