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IDK if Finnish and Swedish are linguistically further distant than the Kazakh and Mongolian languages, but there's another good contender on a global scale.
IDK if Finnish and Swedish are linguistically further distant than the Kazakh and Mongolian languages, but there's another good contender on a global scale.
"Not even in the same family" doesn't mean much in this case. The Turko-Mongol languages have common roots. They share some vocabulary items from ancient times, and the grammatical structures are similar. You could refer to them as a macro-family. They evolved from the same matrix.
As far as being "the most similar, culturally", I don't know why you chose the Kazakhs, out of the many Turkic peoples. The Tuvans are probably the closest culturally, in terms of having preserved a measure of their nomadism to the present time, but the Kirgiz are pretty close, too.
What is said macro language family called? I never hear of a giant Turko-Mongol family of language getting lumped together.
What I basically mean why Mongolic speaking tribes and turkic speaking tribes have such similar culture yet different languages, while at the same time living right next door to each for millennia, and obviously having trade, conquest, etc etc, and not ever merging?
Tengri-ism made a big revival in Yakutia, in the 90's. Islam was never adopted by Yakuts, so there was no competition, when leading intellectuals researched and re-introduced Tengri-ism. I had the impression they lead the pack, among the Turkic peoples, regarding reviving their ancient spiritual traditions.
I sure the Siberia forest people have their own paganism
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Originally Posted by euro123
^ Yes, not to mention how I've heard it's being a long-lasting problem in Kazakstan to discuss if they're european or not.
Prior to the Mongol conquest, Kazakhstan area was under the dominion of the Cumans. I heard the Cumans were caucasoid in origin, and have blond hair, and fair skin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor herself
IDK if Finnish and Swedish are linguistically further distant than the Kazakh and Mongolian languages, but there's another good contender on a global scale.
yes, I forget about that, Sweden/Norway, Finland, and Russia
What is said macro language family called? I never hear of a giant Turko-Mongol family of language getting lumped together.
What I basically mean why Mongolic speaking tribes and turkic speaking tribes have such similar culture yet different languages, while at the same time living right next door to each for millennia, and obviously having trade, conquest, etc etc, and not ever merging?
Well, it used to be called "Altaic language family", and included the Tungusic languages. The Tungus-Manchus seem to have dropped out of it, though, and have hooked up with Korean to create their own family, as far as I can tell.
The Turko-Mongol hypothesis has been questioned in the last couple of decades, but also defended. Linguists are still debating it. Your point about them having close trade ties and having geographic proximity, and a history of war and conquest, potentially creating the conditions for them to merge, is interesting, because some linguists have observed that they've become linguistically closer over the centuries.
You might ask the same question of Russian and Swedish/Norwegian; they share some vocabulary due to proximity, trade, and reciprocal conquest, so why didn't they ever merge? Well, they're too different, for one thing, and their trade-and-conquest phase didn't last long compared to the Turkics and Mongols, plus they're separated by Finland, and you might say--by politics.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 04-19-2019 at 08:09 AM..
Prior to the Mongol conquest, Kazakhstan area was under the dominion of the Cumans. I heard the Cumans were caucasoid in origin, and have blond hair, and fair skin.
The area of Kazakhstan saw Caucasoids migrating in from the Black Sea steppes after the last Ice Age, long before any Cumans (who were Turkic) existed. Some of these same nomadic Caucs migrated as Far East as Western Mongolia, becoming the first people to settle that part of Mongolia, before the Mongols moved in from Manchuria. Ancient history is full of surprises! Nicholas Roerich and his son, George, a Harvard-trained Orientalist, said they found evidence of that Caucasoid migration all the way over by the Korean border, and Chinese archaeologists have found remains of ancient Caucasoids in Manchuria.
Tengri-ism made a big revival in Yakutia, in the 90's. Islam was never adopted by Yakuts, so there was no competition, when leading intellectuals researched and re-introduced Tengri-ism. I had the impression they lead the pack, among the Turkic peoples, regarding reviving their ancient spiritual traditions.
Need to bring back to trengrism to central asia and caucuses. Jihad messed a lot of those people up.
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Originally Posted by grega94
Yeah, well if the Russian federation is going to call all the land between the Baltic and the Pacific as Russia, then they are from “Russia”, otherwise the country needs to find a more inclusive name like it used to be, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or perhaps a new one, Eurasian Federation? I get what you are saying, but by saying that you are also excluding many native minorities which leads to separatism. And in either case Siberia is part of Russia and thus discussed in the European forum, and even then the Kalmyks live in European Russia. But yeah this thread probably would fit better in a different forum.
russia should be broken up. It will be easier to manage.
They do, but the Yakuts aren't among them. They're not Siberian forest people. They're tundra people, Turkics who fled the Mongols by going north.
Well Wiki says they originated around Lake Baikal. That area is forested isnt it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
The area of Kazakhstan saw Caucasoids migrating in from the Black Sea steppes after the last Ice Age, long before any Cumans (who were Turkic) existed. Some of these same nomadic Caucs migrated as Far East as Western Mongolia, becoming the first people to settle that part of Mongolia, before the Mongols moved in from Manchuria. Ancient history is full of surprises! Nicholas Roerich and his son, George, a Harvard-trained Orientalist, said they found evidence of that Caucasoid migration all the way over by the Korean border, and Chinese archaeologists have found remains of ancient Caucasoids in Manchuria.
The Uyghurs of Xingjiang have caucasoid features.
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