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You just admitted you would not care if millions of chinese die.
That is not a normal reaction, that is a reaction of either a psychopath or a person who is filled with hate.
I'm sure you always cry your eyes out when terrorist attacks strike in places like Afghanistan or Iraq.
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No wonder you think that. If you told me that you would not care if thousands of Norwegians die, I would not listen to a word of what you are saying.
I personally have no problems making Chinese more pro-HK, but it requires you to debate from their position.
Geez what a monster I am for not having any interest in communicating with a group of people that keep bullying us.
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I never said they should not protest at all. I supported the initial protests, which led to Carrie Lam going out and say the extradition bill is dead.
I do not support the violent protests that is sending Hong Kong towards a massive recession, and could lead to a crackdown where Hong Kong would lose all their freedoms.
You seem to have zero concern how such a recession will affect ordinary people in Hong Kong, or the effect of a crackdown.
In that case I know who to blame, but you don't.
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The early escalations of police brutality and a bunch of "spontaneous attacks" by pro-Beijing, middle-aged men in white shirts who were photographed with pro-Beijing leaders after beating the crap out of protesters on the MTR were in large part what turned the protests into what they are now; I think that BJ tried to handle in a toned-down, but similar-at-the-core way that they would have handled it on the mainland: you make problems, you go down.
One of the problems that China is facing is that the party now increasingly exists in a bubble of its own making, where it is sealed off in large part from the true opinions of its people and it often believes its own hype in most sociopolitical matters. I think that the info that they got from their hand-selected HK leaders, eager to please Beijing, was that a) the extradition bill would go through juuuuuuust fine, and b) the dissent would be easily handled by a show of force. This was a massive miscalculation that only exacerbated and escalated things. The next move was to move military vehicles to Shenzhen (not far from where I live), in a clear show of force. Slick propaganda movies, ominous threats in party papers, etc, failed to instill the sense of fear that you get on the mainland - if anything, it egged on the protesters.
Geez what a monster I am for not having any interest in communicating with a group of people that keep bullying us.
You think all chinese should be punished because of their government?
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
I'm sure you always cry your eyes out when terrorist attacks strike in places like Afghanistan or Iraq.
Or when hundreds of thousands got killed in the Syrian civial war, no one cared about that
I understand that people do not always care as much as they would like about massacres, but the fact that you go out of your way to tell everyone that millions of chinese could be massacred and you wouldn't bat an eye show that you are motivated by hate.
And who are you to say what they should think about China? Are you from there?
The protestors were way more violent in France. They were burning cars and shops. The protestors in Hong Kong did not no matter what kind of retarded news site you've been reading.
Listen, as long as I am being molested by the HK crap in the news every evening, I have every right to say about that topic whatever I want, whether you like it or not.
HK protesters attacked the police and vandalized for instance a metro station at the airport, which is worse than vandalizing shops or cars as the metro belongs to the state and thus to everyone.
The police represents the state, one can't attack the police, neither with stones, nor with Molotov cocktails or anything else. If you did that here in Portugal, you would also get to know police brutality because attacking the police is taboo.
Regarding the extradition law, I don't know the details of the planned law, but I think people should be put to trial where they commit their crimes, not where they come from. So, if someone from HK commits a crime on the mainland, he should face a mainland court, and vice versa, of course.
I mean, when I am from Portugal and used to possessing drugs without breaking the law, I cannot go to a strict country like Saudi-Arabia, behave the same way and think I will get away with it just because things are different in Portugal. I know different countries have different laws, so I will have to face the consequences of my deeds right there.
I think China is a patient country, the 50-year transition phase is proof of that. But that phase is almost half over and I don't think China will consider the riots a good argument once the negotiations start - if China negotiates at all, that is. They might as well push financial services in mainland cities until then and then turn HK into just another Chinese city with mainland laws and rules. And if people in HK riot again, let them riot their island into the ground. They have to live there and won't be missed on the mainland.
People in HK should realize they are in a transition phase, which means, they have to make the transition to the new reality during those 50 years, not on the last day of those 50 years.
I think China is a patient country, the 50-year transition phase is proof of that. But that phase is almost half over and I don't think China will consider the riots a good argument once the negotiations start - if China negotiates at all, that is. They might as well push financial services in mainland cities until then and then turn HK into just another Chinese city with mainland laws and rules. And if people in HK riot again, let them riot their island into the ground. They have to live there and won't be missed on the mainland.
People in HK should realize they are in a transition phase, which means, they have to make the transition to the new reality during those 50 years, not on the last day of those 50 years.
Here's the big thing your forgetting. Hong Kongers had no say in whether they wanted to be part of China or not. Deng Xiaoping told Thatcher to hand over Hong Kong or else China would invade Hong Kong. After what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989 most Hong Kongers would have preferred to remain British. So in 1997 they were basically dragged into the Chinese colossus against their will ... and you wonder why they are upset
Hong Kongers want nothing do to with China. And the heavy handed tactics of the HKPF over the past few weeks have more or less turned all of Hong Kong against Beijing. Hong Kong may well become just another Chinese city in 2047 ... but the people who live there will never tolerate Bejing's rule.
Here's the big thing your forgetting. Hong Kongers had no say in whether they wanted to be part of China or not. Deng Xiaoping told Thatcher to hand over Hong Kong or else China would invade Hong Kong. After what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989 most Hong Kongers would have preferred to remain British. So in 1997 they were basically dragged into the Chinese colossus against their will ... and you wonder why they are upset
Hong Kongers want nothing do to with China. And the heavy handed tactics of the HKPF over the past few weeks have more or less turned all of Hong Kong against Beijing. Hong Kong may well become just another Chinese city in 2047 ... but the people who live there will never tolerate Bejing's rule.
Who cares what HKers want? The 99-year lease was over, China did not steal its own territory, it simply got back what was its to begin with.
HKers should be grateful they got that 50-year transition phase, which was very generous.
Who cares what HKers want? The 99-year lease was over, China did not steal its own territory, it simply got back what was its to begin with.
HKers should be grateful they got that 50-year transition phase, which was very generous.
The UK never signed a treaty with China, they signed a treaty with the Qing dynasty which became invalid when Sun Yat-sen overthrew the said dynasty in 1911. The UK was under no obligation to return anything. China took Hong Kong with threats of force.
You think all chinese should be punished because of their government?
Being indifferent towards them is a punishment? Geez I wonder what you would call what China has been doing to us.
It's not my fault that they get so incredibly triggered whenever someone brings up HK and Taiwan, and it's not my job to educate them about common human decency. Why should I communicate with a group of people that wouldn't stop humiliating us? Why should I be tolerant of their retarded worldview?
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Or when hundreds of thousands got killed in the Syrian civial war, no one cared about that
I understand that people do not always care as much as they would like about massacres, but the fact that you go out of your way to tell everyone that millions of chinese could be massacred and you wouldn't bat an eye show that you are motivated by hate.
You started it. I didn't "go out of my way to tell everyone" about anything.
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Originally Posted by Neuling
Listen, as long as I am being molested by the HK crap in the news every evening, I have every right to say about that topic whatever I want, whether you like it or not.
No one is forcing you to read the news and no one is keeping you from saying anything. But don't expect others not to call your bull**** out on a topic you clearly know NOTHING about.
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HK protesters attacked the police and vandalized for instance a metro station at the airport, which is worse than vandalizing shops or cars as the metro belongs to the state and thus to everyone.
The police represents the state, one can't attack the police, neither with stones, nor with Molotov cocktails or anything else. If you did that here in Portugal, you would also get to know police brutality because attacking the police is taboo.
Yeah, according to the Chinese propaganda you've been reading. HK potesters did not attack the police and vandalise. The police attacked the peaceful protesters. You seem very proud of your ignorance.
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Regarding the extradition law, I don't know the details of the planned law, but I think people should be put to trial where they commit their crimes, not where they come from. So, if someone from HK commits a crime on the mainland, he should face a mainland court, and vice versa, of course.
I mean, when I am from Portugal and used to possessing drugs without breaking the law, I cannot go to a strict country like Saudi-Arabia, behave the same way and think I will get away with it just because things are different in Portugal. I know different countries have different laws, so I will have to face the consequences of my deeds right there.
See? You clearly know nothing about the topic of jurisdiction. Just because you commit a crime in a different country doesn't mean you would necessarily be tried there.
And in China dissidence is a crime.
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I think China is a patient country, the 50-year transition phase is proof of that. But that phase is almost half over and I don't think China will consider the riots a good argument once the negotiations start - if China negotiates at all, that is. They might as well push financial services in mainland cities until then and then turn HK into just another Chinese city with mainland laws and rules. And if people in HK riot again, let them riot their island into the ground. They have to live there and won't be missed on the mainland.
People in HK should realize they are in a transition phase, which means, they have to make the transition to the new reality during those 50 years, not on the last day of those 50 years.
For the last time. It is none of your ****ing business. It's their home. They have the final say. Your colonial mentality is ****ing nauseating. Seriously who the **** do you think you are to keep telling them what they should do or should think? Have you even been to Hong Kong? Do you know anyone from Hong Kong? For someone who knows so little about the region you clearly have a lot of imposing nonsense to contribute.
The UK had been ceded HK island and Kowloon in perpetuity and was under zero obligation to give them back. They had been given the New Territories on a 99 year lease by the Wing. China voiced it's intention to reclaim the NT at the end of the lease, which would have left HK island Kowloon a small, isolated territory like Macau, with little infrastructure for power, water, waste, etc, and the logistical nightmares of new borders etc.
They still could have tried to do more for the HK people than they did when they gave it back, though. There was a sense of abandonment and a lack of any meaningful attempt to secure them their rights, which I think only started to sink in for many after the 2014 protests. Many people seemed to expect that the UK would somehow step in to put a stop to it but they no longer were able to influence the situation.
Re: extradition and jurisdiction... The fears over extradition were not because they didn't want a murderer from the mainland to not be able to be sent back across the border for punishment. What a perpelxing conclusion to come to.
Think of it in this context, handily broken down by number.
1. Dissidents and publishers with popular which are unpopular on the mainland start suddenly appearing over the border, under arrest, issue statements admitting that they committed a litany of terrible actions against China, and are handed lengthy sentences for offenses which do not exist in HK.
2. HK passes a law banning insulting the Chinese national anthem, punishable by detention.
3. HK announces an extradition bill which would allow people who commit crimes in any Chinese territory to be prosecuted at the location of that crime, meaning that any actions related to sedition, criticism of government, etc which are considered "crimes" on the mainland would be cause to extradite the accused there.
The mainland has a 99.9% conviction rate.
I think that most HK'ers wouldn't mind an extradition policy for capital crimes such as murder (I support it), but viewed the bill as a sweeping reform that would erode many of their rights, covered in a veneer of feel-good justice. For every one person extradited for murder, they could extradite ten thousand for saying unpopular things.
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