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Have the protestors asked the HK people if they want to make a last stand and end up like the uighurs? They keep claiming that HK people support them, but I am quite sure HK people will accept pretty much anything to avoid that. People want things to go back to normal, not sacrifice everything to give a message.
Taking a last stand normally means that all other alternatives are worse than death. In this case it must be that all other scenarioes for Hong Kong are worse than end up like the uighurs. But that was not the case at all. Even if the extradition treaty was passed, which was the worst case scenario, it would still be much better than the current situation.
1. We're living in a post-9/11 and the age of trump environment. Uighers are muslim. No one in the western world really cares about muslims after 2 planes hit the twin towers. If Uighers went back to tengrism or buddhism or godlessness, there would more support for them like the Tibetans. We all saw how Egypt turned out with muslim brotherhood running the place. No one wants that crap.
2. HK is fully westernized. The West still has a ton of influence there. Western tech and cash still flows into the PRC from HK. Shanghai is not as free as HK. Young HK people protesting did not live under the CCP rules. They have the drug of freedom and now the CCP wants to take it like the britsh were trying to take away self government from the american colonists after 150 years of self rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
The west tried the same tactics on the Uighers. Find some malcontents and crazies give them some knives and send them to China to cause problems in the name of "freedom".
I think don't Western agents gave uighers knives. How can they even get there? Central asia is totally land locked and the PRC is an Orwellian police state with cameras everywhere. Besides, why would anyone want another Afghanistan in central asia.
THe CCP is always paranoid. People cannot vote so there is no peaceful transition of power. If the economy goes or there's an ecological disaster that causes a great famine, pooh bear's head is going to roll.
In the beginning of this thread I said that violent protests will be counter productive and lead to less freedom. Some users argued against me claiming that it will eventually force Beijing to give Hong Kong what they want. One user even used the withdrawal of the extradition treaty as proof that violent protest worked.
I am asking those users, do they still think further protests will force Beijing to agree to the five demands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k
The protests have done almost exactly what the protesters intended them to do: damaged both the HK and PRC economies, turned Carrie Lam into a lame duck, and undermined CCP control and their narratives of an invincible China.
Few protesters ever thought they would get the "five demands." If they would have just shelved the extradition law early on then it wouldn't have gotten this far.
You are wrong when you say that few protestors did not think they would get the "five demands" or at least some of them. The protestors are young and idealististic, and they were fed the idea that China would never let Hong Kong economy crash, because that would hurt their pockets. Western media constantly made articles about how China has to meet the demands. On social media there was hardly a person mentioning that they will not get what they want. It is only now they are starting to realize that Beijing will never meet their demands, and that makes them angry.
The people who funded the protests are mainly focused on undermining China, not helping Hong Kong. So yes, they will be happy about how the protest turned out. But that was not the story told to HK people, because it is not in their interest to destroy their own economy so that they can hurt their main export/import partner. In addition, China has had a bad reputation for a long time, the protest will not make it much worse.
Even if a Hong Kong person really want to undermine China, is it really worth it to sacrifice your own economy and political freedoms to make Chinas international reputation slightly worse? Of course not, only a person with zero skin in the game would think that is an acceptable trade off.
One thing I don't understand about the US gov't is, we get very pissed when Russia or other countries try to meddle with our politics and internal affairs; yet US has no qualm about meddling with other countries' affairs...
What if China supports California to secede? (there are many wanting that)
I don't see US is supporting Hong Kong to secede from PRC.
So far what US does is not intervening in Hong Kong. The proposed "Hong Kong Democracy and Human Rights Act" is purely domestic, i.e. banning entry of Chinese and Hong Kong officials from entering US. In fact, there was a similar "Hong Kong Policy Act" passed in 1992. By that time Beijing applauded what Congress did.
What Beijing has criticized the "Hong Kong Democracy and Human Rights Act" is very inappropriate. They are intervening in the internal affair of U.S. Beijing should apologize and stop such reckless behavior which hurts the feelings of 327 million Americans.
Last night was pretty bad. Lots of people were injured, shops of known Chinese people were looted and burned, some infrastructure was destroyed and a lot more damaged. The public transportation system is non functional, people are getting real tired of this crap.
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I don't condone violence. But there is a reason that those radical demonstrators vandalized those institutions. They are:
(1) Bank of China and other State-owned Banks from China:
The reasons are obvious.
(2) MTR:
Their new CEO cooperated with the police after CCTV criticized that they scheduled extra trains for demonstrators. And he even told People's Daily he was ashamed of such behavior. Since then, the trains deliberately didn't stop at the station when the demonstrators wanted to go home and left them besieged by police.
But other means of public transportation, i.e. buses, trams, ferries and peak tram are not targeted by demonstrators.
(3) Pro-China enterprise:
The representative is Maxine group. The founder's daughter testified in UN Human Right Council and ridiculed the demonstrators.
(4) Local leftist union:
The reason is also obvious.
Other business, i.e. those owned by American, British, Japanese and Li Ka Shing, etc are not harassed.
I see this as tick for tat. After Beijing harassed Cathay Pacific, then the demonstrators harassed those businesses owned by China or pro-China in return.
Do you sense the tide turning? Some of my friends who once were gung ho about the protests, now just hide in the apt on weekends...
They are no longer going out to drinks with friends or shopping or binge eating (like we used to do). They think it's "dangerous outside" on weekends.
That is exactly what those radical demonstrators want.
Everyone and every business in Hong Kong suffer. Foreign business leave Hong Kong. Hong Kong stops to be a cash cow for China. Beijing cannot get FDI from Hong Kong. It hits China when China needs Hong Kong most since likely all Chinese stocks listed in NYSE or NASDAQ will be de-listed.
Their strategy is well-known. And they are half successful.
Though many in Hong Kong don't agree with their goal, such strategy has gained a lot of support among University, High School and even Primary School students.
One thing special about these radical demonstrators is that they are mostly born after the transition in '97.
One who is charged for rioting is only 12 years old. The two who got shot by police are only 14 and 18 years old.
They belong to the new population -- "Special Population raised by the Special Administrative Region".
In fact, those raised in the colonial era do not have the guts, the talent or the perseverance of this new generation.
this new generation has balls. They know what's going to happen to them once the protests are over. End up just like uighers and tibeteans except probably worse.
Marco Rubio, who is born in Miami and the son of a Cuban refugee, shares similar background with most of the people in Hong Kong. Most Hong Kongers are the children of refugees from Mainland China. Both Cuban Americans and Hong Kongers show strong disdain towards Communism
Nancy Pelosi, who was harassed by the Police in Beijing after she unfurled a banner in Tiananmen Square in 1991, now takes revenge at such humiliation.
That wouldn't really be the reason why Pelosi is "taking revenge". Pelosi has long had a public record of criticizing China's human rights record, for basically the same reason Rubio has a hardline stance on Cuba --- it's popular with her constituents. . No different than a congressperson with a lot of Vietnamese American voters in her district taking a hardline on Vietnam.
Remember, Pelosi's San Francisco district includes Chinatown, one of the most politically well-organized communities of the city. Many Chinatown residents fled China's communist regime and have no love for it.
So Pelosi has been doing what any politician with common sense does, though she hasn't been as vocally critical of China in the last couple of decades since becoming a Democratic caucus leader and Speaker of the House - her priorities have changed.
Last edited by silverkris; 10-07-2019 at 04:56 PM..
That is exactly what those radical demonstrators want.
Everyone and every business in Hong Kong suffer. Foreign business leave Hong Kong. Hong Kong stops to be a cash cow for China. Beijing cannot get FDI from Hong Kong. It hits China when China needs Hong Kong most since likely all Chinese stocks listed in NYSE or NASDAQ will be de-listed.
Their strategy is well-known. And they are half successful.
Though many in Hong Kong don't agree with their goal, such strategy has gained a lot of support among University, High School and even Primary School students.
THE PLAN
1. Destroy all business in Hong Kong.
2. PLA goes in and restore order
3. Political oppression
4. Economical depression
5. ???
6. PROFIT!!!!
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