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The camps didn't happen in a vaccum. Xinjiang has been plauged by deadly riots and terrorist groups. China did what worked, not what is morally right.
Just because something is effective at reducing terror attacks, does not mean I think it is right. I am sorry if you believe the ends justify the means, but I don't.
I am watching the evening news and they just showed how those protesters are vandalizing a subway station, destroying stuff just for the sake of it. This has nothing to do with political protests anymore, it is like with those radical yellow vests in France that had simply gotten used to the habit of vandalizing Paris and other cities every weekend. If those protesters go on like that they will lose any support that is left because the Chinese are orderly people, they don't want riots and destruction.
I am watching the evening news and they just showed how those protesters are vandalizing a subway station, destroying stuff just for the sake of it. This has nothing to do with political protests anymore, it is like with those radical yellow vests in France that had simply gotten used to the habit of vandalizing Paris and other cities every weekend. If those protesters go on like that they will lose any support that is left because the Chinese are orderly people, they don't want riots and destruction.
What kind of news are you watching? The police went inside the subway train and started beating up random people like two days ago.
And the Chinese are orderly people? Give me a break.
Yes, when they try to destroy their own economy, because they think that will make Beijing scared (it won't), then I definitely will blame them.
You don't overthrow an elite without major disruption. This is what people in most Western Countries don't want to hear. We think if we just keep voting, we'll eventually find the right politicians and everything will work out. It won't. Political systems, pretty much everywhere, got hijacked a long time ago. The people of Hong Kong are ahead of the curve. They have an actual understanding that you have to fight and sacrifice to get and maintain freedom. It's something most people in Western countries have either forgotten or just vehemently deny.
You don't overthrow an elite without major disruption. This is what people in most Western Countries don't want to hear. We think if we just keep voting, we'll eventually find the right politicians and everything will work out. It won't. Political systems, pretty much everywhere, got hijacked a long time ago. The people of Hong Kong are ahead of the curve. They have an actual understanding that you have to fight and sacrifice to get and maintain freedom. It's something most people in Western countries have either forgotten or just vehemently deny.
But the protestors are not distrupting the whole China, they are just causing disruption in Hong Kong. If China wants to, they could just ignore Hong Kong and let its economy collapse. Hong Kong protestors have zero leverage over China.
In addition, China is not a country that tends to give in to what they consider hostile forces. For instance they are not giving in to Trump even though he is causing damage to China export economy. With the current tactics, the protestors will never get what they want, but they are very close losing the freedoms they have and becoming an ordinary chinese province.
Hong Kong protestors need to think more long term, Xi will not stay in power forever, the next president of China could be more interested in liberal reform. But if Hong Kong is just another chinese province, then it is already too late.
But the protestors are not distrupting the whole China, they are just causing disruption in Hong Kong. If China wants to, they could just ignore Hong Kong and let its economy collapse. Hong Kong protestors have zero leverage over China.
You have to start somewhere. They're working with what they've got. Maybe they could be more effective, but it's easy for us to sit back and second guess what they should or shouldn't be doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
In addition, China is not a country that tends to give in to what they consider hostile forces. For instance they are not giving in to Trump even though he is causing damage to China export economy. With the current tactics, the protestors will never get what they want, but they are very close losing the freedoms they have and becoming an ordinary chinese province.
I agree China doesn't just give in. They know America and the West complain but are not willing to make any short term sacrifices for long term benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
Hong Kong protestors need to think more long term, Xi will not stay in power forever, the next president of China could be more interested in liberal reform. But if Hong Kong is just another chinese province, then it is already too late.
Thinking "long term" by waiting around and hoping the next president to be interested in reform is NOT a strategy. It's a joke. It's not a plan for anything. But it's what we in the West have been conditioned to do.
China is warning that the end is coming for the people who disrupt Hong Kong and antegonize China. They are also planning to sideline Hong Kong by giving Shenzhen some of the same financial freedoms.
For the people who support the protests and their actions, why don't you care about this? Do you believe that China is lying, and they will eventually give in to the protestors demands? Or do you think the fight is more important than the outcome?
You have to start somewhere. They're working with what they've got. Maybe they could be more effective, but it's easy for us to sit back and second guess what they should or shouldn't be doing.
I agree China doesn't just give in. They know America and the West complain but are not willing to make any short term sacrifices for long term benefits.
Thinking "long term" by waiting around and hoping the next president to be interested in reform is NOT a strategy. It's a joke. It's not a plan for anything. But it's what we in the West have been conditioned to do.
So thinking long term by waiting around (or what I proposed) is a joke.
But destroying your own economy and provoking China to implement internet censorship and chinese laws is not a joke? Actually technically you are right, its not a joke, its tragedy.
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