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Many if not most of the radical anti-CCP people actually hate (mainland) Chinese people. That is my genuine observation.
Those who do not hate Chinese people usually do not care too much about this issue, even if they dislike China government.
That is my observation too. I initially thought Dangerous Boy was an American who really wanted american superiority, but after he starting to insult me with chinese expressions, then I started to think he is a Chinese guy who hates his own country.
My country actually gave the peace prize to a Chinese dissident, so its not a pro-China country. But they would still never say that they hope communism will return to China or that millions of Chinese could get massacred and they would not care. Many of them actually agree with me, when I point out that I support the goals of the protests, but I think violent protests are counter productive.
You just said earlier that you hope China revert to communism so the economy collapse.
Do you regret saying that?
It'd benefit the whole world if China reverts back to communism. China's influence on the internal politics of many countries is toxic. It's invading not just Taiwan and the banana republics in Asia and Africa, but also Canada and Australia. If nothing gets done soon the rest of the world will be next. Europe is laughably useless against Russia already, the Russians fired down an airplane carrying hundreds of EU citizens and killed in EU territories and the EU did nothing to retaliate. Actually the EU is laughably useless even against a nobody like Turkey. There's no way that you can handle a stronger Russia, aka China, on your doorstep.
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Lol, you do not know me. I do support a democratic taiwan, I do not get paid by the chinese government for my posts, and I am not against the people of HK. I am not even among the 40% of HK population who would vote for the pro-Beijing parties.
You need to stop thinking so black and white. Just because someone is against violent protests, does not mean they support the chinese government.
The thing is you only condemn the violent protesters, which were few and far between, instead of the violent police, which were a lot. If you don't want to be called a wumao then stop acting like one.
But think about this, if the protestors were able to get 80% of the vote instead of almost 60%, then they would get a majority in the Legco despite the biased system. Eventually they would be able to take over the whole system.
If Hong Kong pro democracy groups wants to win, they will need more support than 60%. This is a not a democratic battle where the majority wins, because the other 40% has the whole Chinese government on their side.
I don't know why you are fixated on numbers. If you win an election, you win an election. 60% is pretty darned good margin in any election. Heck, the US Democratic or Republican Party will take that as a great performance. Same with respective parties in the UK, Canada, France, Germany and Japan.
But it's a start. It's kind of odd that you're harping on the pro-dem coalition "only" gettting 60% of the vote. What other democracies have the victorious parties getting over 80% of the vote? Pretty much one-party states like Singapore which doesn't really have much of an opposition parties. C'mon now.
It'd benefit the whole world if China reverts back to communism.
Will it also benefit the 1.4 billion people living in China?
Or are they not part of the world, and can be sacrificed?
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The thing is you only condemn the violent protesters, which were few and far between, instead of the violent police, which were a lot. If you don't want to be called a wumao then stop acting like one.
Police has a mandate to be violent, its their job. In America they shoot and kill around a thousand people a year, and countless get injured. If there was serious unrest in the US, that number could quadrouple. Every case of excessive police violence is unfortunate, but not enforcing the laws is worse.
During the last weeks the police has mainly tried to clear up the universities that is used to block the roads. What do you think the police should do, just let them block the roads?
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Originally Posted by silverkris
I don't know why you are fixated on numbers. If you win an election, you win an election. 60% is pretty darned good margin in any election. Heck, the US Democratic or Republican Party will take that as a great performance. Same with respective parties in the UK, Canada, France, Germany and Japan.
But it's a start. It's kind of odd that you're harping on the pro-dem coalition "only" gettting 60% of the vote. What other democracies have the victorious parties getting over 80% of the vote? Pretty much one-party states like Singapore which doesn't really have much of an opposition parties. C'mon now.
I think you are mixing two different things. Yes, they won the election and they deserve to have the power. If Hong Kong was a true democracy the pro-democracy would have been in power a long time ago.
But, Hong Kong is not a true democracy and if you want Hong Kong to get a true democracy you need more support than almost 60%. Especially considering that it is possible to win in the biased elections if the support is high enough. To get that they need to use more peaceful tactics and stop the bigotry against mainlanders.
A big tent movement will be much more effective than the current Hong Kongers vs mainlanders.
Will it also benefit the 1.4 billion people living in China?
Or are they not part of the world, and can be sacrificed?
It's not my problem that their country is incredibly unlikable.
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Police has a mandate to be violent, its their job. In America they shoot and kill around a thousand people a year, and countless get injured. If there was serious unrest in the US, that number could quadrouple. Every case of excessive police violence is unfortunate, but not enforcing the laws is worse.
During the last weeks the police has mainly tried to clear up the universities that is used to block the roads. What do you think the police should do, just let them block the roads?
Everyone and their mother knows that the police brutality against PoC in the US is well-documented and not improving. The fact that you can only reference the worst offender clearly shows how unacceptable the police brutality in HK has been. Many American cops being violent pieces of **** does not justify police brutality anywhere else when there are much better examples such as Taiwanese police force. During the 2014 protest the protesters even stormed inside the Parliament and the worst was a bit of beating at some point, then all the protesters have been acquitted of all the charges.
It's not my problem that their country is incredibly unlikable.
So if a country is unlikable, the people deserve to be treated like subhumans?
Would you describe yourself as a bigot?
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
Everyone and their mother knows that the police brutality against PoC in the US is well-documented and not improving. The fact that you can only reference the worst offender clearly shows how unacceptable the police brutality in HK has been. Many American cops being violent pieces of **** does not justify police brutality anywhere else when there are much better examples such as Taiwanese police force. During the 2014 protest the protesters even stormed inside the Parliament and the worst was a bit of beating at some point, then all the protesters have been acquitted of all the charges.
America has been their model for freedom, and now you are saying they are bad too? You seem to dislike police in general.
But lets talk about America. Lets say black people start rioting, they force themselves into the US senate, they block roads across america, they stop train and subway services, they burn down businesses who have criticized them, they beat up people who criticize them. Is your solution for that problem to do nothing and acquit them from all charges? By doing that you will start a race war.
I denounce excessive police violence in both Hong Kong and in America. But not enforcing the laws is worse.
So if a country is unlikable, the people deserve to be treated like subhumans?
Would you describe yourself as a bigot?
There's nothing wrong with animosity held against people who have been hostile towards you for decades. I have no time for your nonsense.
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America has been their model for freedom, and now you are saying they are bad too? You seem to dislike police in general.
People were waving the American flag because it was the only country that isn't a coward facing China. Everyone with a pair of eyes and has experienced the 2016 election campaign (or has been to San Francisco, lol) would know that America is NOT a model of anything.
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But lets talk about America. Lets say black people start rioting, they force themselves into the US senate, they block roads across america, they stop train and subway services, they burn down businesses who have criticized them, they beat up people who criticize them. Is your solution for that problem to do nothing and acquit them from all charges? By doing that you will start a race war.
If something like that ever happens it must be a response to something incredibly outrageous, and the solution would obviously be to LISTEN to their demand.
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