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I'm talking about Shenzhen. I specifically said Shenzhen, not China. The paragraph after that, I mentioned Foshan as being much cheaper. You can't get a bed in Shenzhen for 1k/mo - I know because we pay for a dorm for our staff. 10k is average for a tech worker or small business owner perhaps, but not for the service sector. 10k would be considered a very good income to most of the people you interact with day to day in various businesses.
You're clearly trying to make it look cheaper than it is.
Open the article. It clearly states that the average salary in Shenzhen in 10,088 RMB. The reason Shenzhen is expensive is precisely because the salaries are high compared to the rest of China.
I know you mentioned Foshan, but you still mentioned figures that are higher than a lot of second and especially third tier cities in China.
There are some low paid tech workers, so I am not going to argue against that. But for professionals in Shenzhen a salary of around 20000 per month is normal.
Quote:
In Shenzhen, the average annual salary for mid to high-end workers ranks third nationally after Beijing and Shanghai, at RMB236,000 (US$36,486), according to a report by Liepin, a company that offers job hunting services.
Open the article. It clearly states that the average salary in Shenzhen in 10,088 RMB. The reason Shenzhen is expensive is precisely because the salaries are so high.
I know you mentioned Foshan, but you still mentioned figures that are higher than a lot of second and especially third tier cities in China.
I gave an accurate description of the COL in a top-tier city in China, and nothing more. Then, I gave an accurate rundown of the same in Foshan.
Of course, anywhere you go in the world, less desirable places cost less. I'm not interested in living in a second or third tier city in China and since I didn't feel like writing a polemic on COL across China, I stuck to hose two places. In my wife's hometown, we could buy a new 100 sq/m flat for about 400k RMB; we also own a couple places in peripheral villages where her family live and they are worth perhaps 100k or so. Many people there make less than 2k/mo.
Now, similarly, I could buy a house in Ohio or somewhere in Louisiana for $40-50k USD. The COL there is a fraction of what it'd be to live in LA or NYC. Many people there make federal minimum wage, and opportunity there is often proportionately lower. Nothing particularly controversial about this reality.
I gave an accurate description of the COL in a top-tier city in China, and nothing more. Then, I gave an accurate rundown of the same in Foshan.
Of course, anywhere you go in the world, less desirable places cost less. I'm not interested in living in a second or third tier city in China and since I didn't feel like writing a polemic on COL across China, I stuck to hose two places. In my wife's hometown, we could buy a new 100 sq/m flat for about 400k RMB; we also own a couple places in peripheral villages where her family live and they are worth perhaps 100k or so. Many people there make less than 2k/mo.
Now, similarly, I could buy a house in Ohio or somewhere in Louisiana for $40-50k USD. The COL there is a fraction of what it'd be to live in LA or NYC. Many people there make federal minimum wage, and opportunity there is often proportionately lower. Nothing particularly controversial about this reality.
Yes your cost of living numbers are correct for Shenzhen, the reason I mentioned it is because you gave the impression that the cost of living in China is much higher than it is, while at the same time lowballing Shenzhen salaries.
Imaging you said this instead
"There are plenty of poor people in the United States. I live in San Fransisco and my apartment cost $8000 per month and I pay my manager $4000. The cheapest you can find around here is $3000.
In the city I bought my condo San Diego, I rent it out for $3000, wages are 2/3 of here but demand is considerably lower. Older and smaller places go for as low as $1000/mo but it's still probably going to take at least half of what a fast food worker makes in a month."
Americans will have the same reaction as me if you said this.
Yes your cost of living numbers are correct for Shenzhen, the reason I mentioned it is because you gave the impression that the cost of living in China is much higher than it is, while at the same time lowballing Shenzhen salaries.
Imaging you said this instead
"There are plenty of poor people in the United States. I live in San Fransisco and my apartment cost $8000 per month and I pay my manager $4000. The cheapest you can find around here is $3000.
In the city I bought my condo San Diego, I rent it out for $3000, wages are 2/3 of here but demand is considerably lower. Older and smaller places go for as low as $1000/mo but it's still probably going to take at least half of what a fast food worker makes in a month."
Americans will have the same reaction as me if you said this.
No where in my link does it say that it is an average of "professionals". Even a cleaner in a city like Shenzhen can earn 4k. And you want people to believe the average is 5000.
Your data is just sample data and mention nothing where the data is coming from. My guess is that it includes part time salaries or/and include all the migrant workers who come to Shenzhen to work, but they actually live somewhere else.
You are always against using sample data (numbeo) for finding cost of living, but salaries are just fine?
Yes, one could also point to the average salary of tech workers in the Bay Area as being well over 150k/yr or investment bankers in NYC at over a million and ignore the millions of people in the city in other industries who make considerably less.
No where in my link does it say that it is an average of "professionals". Even a cleaner in a city like Shenzhen can earn 4k. And you want people to believe the average is 5000.
You posted this yourself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by That's Mag article
In Shenzhen, the average annual salary for mid to high-end workers ranks third nationally after Beijing and Shanghai, at RMB236,000 (US$36,486), according to a report by Liepin, a company that offers job hunting services.
Yes, one could also point to the average salary of tech workers in the Bay Area as being well over 150k/yr or investment bankers in NYC at over a million and ignore the millions of people in the city in other industries who make considerably less.
I did give a source for professionals, the salaries in Shenzhen are around 20000. The ones who said 10000 never said it only includes professionals, but it probably does not include people who work in Shenzhen but do not live in Shenzhen.
Even here you can earn almost 10000 as an ordinary chinese teacher, so why would any professional move to Shenzhen with crazy high cost of living to earn 10000.
Quote:
In Shenzhen, the average annual salary for mid to high-end workers ranks third nationally after Beijing and Shanghai, at RMB236,000 (US$36,486), according to a report by Liepin, a company that offers job hunting services.
Yes, I posted that professionals earn 20,000 and the average is 10,000 and provided sources
Then Greysholic came with some sample data that says 5000 and claimed without evidence that 10,000 is for professionals, and you just believed him. Who knows who and what is included in this sample data. Does it include people who only work in Shenzhen, does it include part time workers, does it include bonuses?
Another piece of evidence that the salary is higher is the high property prices. You cannot have a mortage payment of 5000 - 10000 if the average salary is 5000. The money need to come from somewhere.
Last edited by Camlon; 04-27-2020 at 12:31 AM..
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