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Nonsense, you did not mention 1 country that is independent for many years and another country is claiming the territory to be their own. You tried to compare Taiwan with places like Scotland, which is a joke.
It is not like it doesn't exist, so why are they not included in your examples. Maybe because including places like South Korea looks bad?
You are still comparing Taiwan to places that just declared independence. Taiwan has been independent for over 70 years, just as long as Iceland.
Seceding from what? Taiwan was under ROC rule before PRC even existed.
And having a claim on another territory does not mean you are seceding. Or is PRC seceding too, because it claims Taiwan?
Crimea is not important economically or geopolitically, impossible to defend and the people wanted to succeed, so no invasion was necessary.
The US will defend Taiwan against a Chinese military invasion, just like it defended South Korea and Kuwait. Letting China take it will destroy the US credibility, so the cost of doing nothing is massive.
I keep saying every independence case is different; you keep saying Taiwan and XYZ are not comparable, are we saying the same thing?
If you want to throw South and North Koreas into it you are welcome to. That case has its own circumstances. My understanding is in that case, neither north nor south wants to be independent from the other; each wants to unite the other.
Taiwan has never been officially independent, even today. From 1949 until TODAY the ROC constitution claims to be the legal representative of the greater China (mainland and Taiwan combined). It was only in the last 30 years that Taiwan has attempted to covertly steer toward independence; but even then no Taiwan leaders has dared to actually announce independence.
China is very generous, it has never really cared about the limbo state of affairs. But when Taiwan thinks it has to change that unilaterally, it need not complain when China reacts accordingly.
Actually, it is not really correct to say Taiwan because only a minority of the Taiwanese want independence. The vast majority of them want things to remain like in the past, backed by the yearly study done by a Taiwanese university: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7801&id=6963
I keep saying every independence case is different; you keep saying Taiwan and XYZ are not comparable, are we saying the same thing?
I keep saying it, so you start comparing Taiwan with places like South Korea and Kuwait and not Scotland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher
If you want to throw South and North Koreas into it you are welcome to. That case has its own circumstances. My understanding is in that case, neither north nor south wants to be independent from the other; each wants to unite the other.
Sounds exactly the same as China and Taiwan. Neither South or North Korea want to share power, they just want to control the whole penisula.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher
Taiwan has never been officially independent, even today. From 1949 until TODAY the ROC constitution claims to be the legal representative of the greater China (mainland and Taiwan combined). It was only in the last 30 years that Taiwan has attempted to covertly steer toward independence; but even then no Taiwan leaders has dared to actually announce independence.
First off, this is not true. Taiwan was officially recognized as China for many years, clearly showing that Taiwan was independent. Then they stopped recognizing Taiwan as China in favour of PRC. Taiwan didn't stop being independent at that time, it still had full control of its territory, but it was no longer recognized as China.
Taiwan does not want to declare independence, that is CCP propaganda. It got its independence from Japan in 25 October 1945. Taiwan is seeking official recognition so that it can participate in organizations such as WHO.
Quote:
From 1949 until TODAY the ROC constitution claims to be the legal representative of the greater China
You don't seem to understand what that means. It did not mean that it wanted to be a province of PRC. It meant that it wanted the whole mainland to be under Taiwanese control.
Over the years, more reasonable leaders have moderated their demands and is now happy with only controlling Taiwan.
China is very generous, it has never really cared about the limbo state of affairs. But when Taiwan thinks it has to change that unilaterally, it need not complain when China reacts accordingly.
Actually, it is not really correct to say Taiwan because only a minority of the Taiwanese want independence. The vast majority of them want things to remain like in the past, backed by the yearly study done by a Taiwanese university: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7801&id=6963
Yes, they want to keep the strategic ambiguity. Which is that it pretends to be part of China to the PRC, but is actually independent.
And it is China who escalated things by changing language from peaceful reunification to invasion threats.
Taiwan already can participate in UN and other organizations. China tends to reserve slots for Taiwanese representatives within the Chinese delegations.
I keep saying it, so you start comparing Taiwan with places like South Korea and Kuwait and not Scotland.
Sounds exactly the same as China and Taiwan. Neither South or North Korea want to share power, they just want to control the whole penisula.
First off, this is not true. Taiwan was officially recognized as China for many years, clearly showing that Taiwan was independent. Then they stopped recognizing Taiwan as China in favour of PRC. Taiwan didn't stop being independent at that time, it still had full control of its territory, but it was no longer recognized as China.
Taiwan does not want to declare independence, that is CCP propaganda. It got its independence from Japan in 25 October 1945. Taiwan is seeking official recognition so that it can participate in organizations such as WHO.
I am not saying Taiwan is comparable to Scotland. I am just saying Scotland is also an independence-seeking case, with its own circumstances. I'm sure it is worhty of discussion to Scottish folks; but this thread is about Taiwan.
I think Taiwan is not comparable to South/North Korea either, for the reason I stated above.
I think Taiwan has some similarity to Catalonia - but not exactly. Catalonia has not gone thru a civil war with Madrid.
The closest comparison I can think of is the Confederate South just before Robert E. Lee surrendered, because:
1. Both sides used to be one country
2. A civil war ensued
3. One side lost ground
4. Final surrender and re-unification
Recently I read an article about the Taiwanese business community, a lot of businesses actually would welcome a reunification as it would make doing business with the mainland - their main market - a lot easier.
In the case of China and Taiwan reunification is very mild anyway because China is granting Taiwan the same status as HK and Macau. One country - two systems. So, at the end of the day, little would change for Taiwan, except for common Chinese defense and foreign politics. The Taiwanese could still keep their parliament and elect the government of their TSAR. The border would remain just like the one between China and HK. I.e. no free migration across the border. Etc. Etc. Etc.
In fact, that concept could even serve as the foundation for a Korean unification.
1. Both sides used to be one country
2. A civil war ensued
3. One side lost ground
4. Final surrender and re-unification
Taiwan is now in stage 3.
This timeline can also be applied to South Korea.
And are you saying that the CCP did not win the civil war?
Quote:
I think Taiwan is not comparable to South/North Korea either, for the reason I stated above
Your reason was that South and North want unification, and I just pointed out that they want the same kind of reunification as the CCP. They control the whole territory.
Last edited by Camlon; 11-08-2021 at 05:41 PM..
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