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China's interesting in retaining a concept of a "China proper" and a drive towards unification for a long period of history. In contrast to nations in Europe that have heads of government self-describe themselves as the inheritor of the Roman Empire, subsequent Chinese dynasties have actually been able to create nation-states that encompass what are generally the larger heartland portions of previous large Chinese nations. In practice though, that area has been split up many, many times, and many of the dynasties that are considered part of the "mainline" of Chinese nation-states were of vastly different sizes and scopes.
The cause of this unity probably has a lot to do with geographic features where there's relatively little in large peninsulas, islands, broad deserts and long, vast mountain ranges dividing up what's usually been the heartland of Chinese dynasties and meanwhile there is quite a bit of arable land. You'll also recall that other notable East Asian nation-states in history are often along those substantial geographic divisions (such as Japan on its islands or Korea on a sizable, hilly peninsula). That being said, even in "China proper" there has been a lot of infighting and regional differences as can be seen in the constant and many splits the area has had since its first large unified state with the Qin dynasty.
well, in terms of power, the only region that matter is call the "central region" or "fortress center". That region is north of the yangze river, and south of the great wall, and was protected by numerous natural and manmade fortresses and has always been the political center of china.
there were many times that china was divided in half between the north and the south, but every time, the north always won (happened in America too) and took over the south like clockwork every time.
well, in terms of power, the only region that matter is call the "central region" or "fortress center". That region is north of the yangze river, and south of the great wall, and was protected by numerous natural and manmade fortresses and has always been the political center of china.
there were many times that china was divided in half between the north and the south, but every time, the north always won (happened in America too) and took over the south like clockwork every time.
If only it had stayed split in the 20st century lol. That would have saved so much of our trouble.
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Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy
then we should destroy the north from the inside
I thought all you guys wanted was a democratic China. I get it, a democratic China would still consist of Chinese people who would put Chinese interest first.
Instead you want China to be poor and divided so that you can use them as cheap labour. In addition, a divided and poor China would not be any better against minorities or other human right issues that you pretend to care about. With that kind of rethoric, is it any wonder that Chinese do not support you?
I thought all you guys wanted was a democratic China. I get it, a democratic China would still consist of Chinese people who would put Chinese interest first.
When have I ever said I wanted a democratic China lol? I don't gaf if China is a democracy or not. As long as China doesn't bother us like they always do now they can be as undemocratic as North Korea for all I care.
Quote:
Instead you want China to be poor and divided so that you can use them as cheap labour. In addition, a divided and poor China would not be any better against minorities or other human right issues that you pretend to care about. With that kind of rethoric, is it any wonder that Chinese do not support you?
Lol when have Chinese people ever supported us? A divided and poor China would leave us a lone, that's literally the only thing I care about.
Yeah but only before modern China. The last major north south divide was the Taiping Revolt occupying a large area in the south and was defeated by the Qing based in Beijing. During the Boxer Rebellion, southern provinces did not follow orders of the Qing court because they did not want to be at war with foreign powers.
The KMT and CCP went long journeys from southern provinces to northern provinces. Many past KMT and CCP leaders were southern Chinese.
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Originally Posted by maomao
well, in terms of power, the only region that matter is call the "central region" or "fortress center". That region is north of the yangze river, and south of the great wall, and was protected by numerous natural and manmade fortresses and has always been the political center of china.
there were many times that china was divided in half between the north and the south, but every time, the north always won (happened in America too) and took over the south like clockwork every time.
When have I ever said I wanted a democratic China lol? I don't gaf if China is a democracy or not. As long as China doesn't bother us like they always do now they can be as undemocratic as North Korea for all I care.
Lol when have Chinese people ever supported us? A divided and poor China would leave us a lone, that's literally the only thing I care about.
If China was divided then Taiwan would not be its own country. There would be no reason for lots of Chinese to flee to Taiwan and it would be easily taken over by its closest neighbor. Your biggest worry is that China might take control over Taiwan, but in your dream scenario, Taiwan could have been run by Taiping heavenly kingdom which was a theocratic communist state. So be careful what you wish for.
And if all that you care about is having China leaving you alone, then you could not have picked a worse tactic. By admitting that you want Chinese to suffer, then you are making yourself an enemy.
I don't understand what that means. They moved north, south, and west. They didn't move east that much after reaching the Pacific unless it's in the northeast because of the ocean except for certain islands like the Penghu island or Taiwan.
If only it had stayed split in the 20st century lol. That would have saved so much of our trouble.
If we're going for preferred alternate history, then I think the preference would have been for the less imperialistic faction of the Japanese Empire to have won out and a less tumultuous move to a republic for China. Something like no second Sino-Japanese War or outright annexation of Korea and a stable and democratic China proper with Tibet, Mongolia, and Xinjiang/Uyghuristan as sovereign and not antagonistic nation-states and a loose union / trading bloc of the sovereign states of East Asia consisting of Mongolia, Tibet, Korea, Uyghuristan, China, and Japan as republics would have been nice. That would be a very different world though. And as to your interests, it'd probably be a toss-up if that means Taiwan ends up part of China or Japan as it's probably unlikely in such a scenario that it'd be a sovereign state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao
well, in terms of power, the only region that matter is call the "central region" or "fortress center". That region is north of the yangze river, and south of the great wall, and was protected by numerous natural and manmade fortresses and has always been the political center of china.
there were many times that china was divided in half between the north and the south, but every time, the north always won (happened in America too) and took over the south like clockwork every time.
It's not the only region that matters, but it is where the Han culture essentially started out in and has often been where the capital city has been. It makes sense in that it's also the largest contiguous and fairly easy to traverse arable block within China. It's also not always the main political center which is why southern capital shave existed before like during the Southern Song period. You're right in that the north generally ends up conquering the south in Chinese history, but it's not necessarily the Central Plain that the Yellow River winds through. There's been more than a few times where the conquering was done from even further north (and even by non-Han people as seen with the origins of the Yuan and Qing dynasties). There's also an oddity where the northwest ends up taking over such as with the Sui and Tang dynasties from the Gansu/Hexi Corridor. The Tang did claim to be descended from Laozi, but really, the founding family are from the peripheries in Gansu.
If China was divided then Taiwan would not be its own country. There would be no reason for lots of Chinese to flee to Taiwan and it would be easily taken over by its closest neighbor. Your biggest worry is that China might take control over Taiwan, but in your dream scenario, Taiwan could have been run by Taiping heavenly kingdom which was a theocratic communist state. So be careful what you wish for.
And if all that you care about is having China leaving you alone, then you could not have picked a worse tactic. By admitting that you want Chinese to suffer, then you are making yourself an enemy.
I think most of the taiwanese don't realized this, the very first moment that china's central government is not strong enough to hold the country together, taiwan will be conquered immediately by whoever runs the show in the part of a separated china nearest taiwan.
in some way, the communist is keeping taiwan safe. Guess what will be the first thing that chinese will be voting for if there is a democracy? send army and take back taiwan. do you want to guess the % of chinese people in mainland china in support of this?
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