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You're are too obsessed with Chinese Faces or East Asian that you want the people in your country to look like Chinese as if the faces of East Asia are the most attractive
So you are saying that Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai)people should not be proud about the history of their ancestors?? Who are you anyway, and why should they listen to you?
Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai)people have the right to be proud of their history okay?? They were historically originated in East Asia, not Southeast Asia. They have the right to be proud of their history of East Asian origin, okay?
And "you" should be proud of your Southeast Asian origin of the Indonesian/Malay ethnicity. Please embrace the historical heritage from your ancestors and don't let them be ashamed of you.
Firstly, Thailand is never been part of Sinosphere (greater Chinese-influenced culture), Vietnam is.
Ancient Indonesian of Hindu-Buddha era and ancient Thai had close ties and share similar cultures. Thailand now is like what Indonesia would be if Islam never spread to the archipelago.
Genetically speaking, average modern "Malay" Indonesian has around 10% - 30% Thai genes.
In some "dna test company" like 23andme Indonesia groups with Thai, Khmer. While Filipino and Austronesian is in the separate group.
So you get the whole idea that Indonesia is pretty much in the middle of spectrum. And yes Indonesian is proud of whatever we are. It's you that desperately want to be recognized as someone else.
It made me wondering why most Filipino, Indonesian and Malaysian usually uses the term "Chinese face" to describe someone with East Asian phenotype (yellow skin, monolid eyes, straight hair)?
It quite "disrespectful" to uses the term "Chinese looks/face" as a generalized term, because there are multiple ethnicites in Asia that shared this type of physical appearance of yellow skin, monolid eyes, straight hair but they aren't ethnically Han(Chineses).
The more widely acceptable and universally respectful term that we all should be using is "East Asian face".
It's like using the term "Malay face" as a generalized term to call anyone who look Southeast Asian.
Chinese face?
Don't complicate yourself, we call ""Chinese/Tionghoa" for Indonesian with Chinese descent (Hokkian, Hakka, Tiociu, etc) just like how we call other ethnics such as Javanese, Papuan, etc. Indonesia doesn't have significant population of other East Asian.
If we know from the very beginning his ethnicity, we will never call "Chinese" for Japanese, Korean, etc. Like how we treat East Asian tourists.
Firstly, Thailand is never been part of Sinosphere (greater Chinese-influenced culture), Vietnam is.
Ancient Indonesian of Hindu-Buddha era and ancient Thai had close ties and share similar cultures. Thailand now is like what Indonesia would be if Islam never spread to the archipelago.
Genetically speaking, average modern "Malay" Indonesian has around 10% - 30% Thai gene
So you get the whole idea that Indonesia is pretty much in the middle of spectrum. And yes Indonesian is proud of whatever we are. It's you that desperately want to be recognized as someone else.
Sinosphere and Indosphere are nothing but cultural terms.
Culture absolutely have nothing to do with genetic or even the origin of people.
Culture usually strongly tied and highly depending with "religion".(This happens everywhere in the world).
Before Thai/Tai(Tai-kadai) people migrates into Sourtheast Asia and were still living Southern China, their culture was Baiyue Animism/Ancestors worshipping culture(neither Sinosphere nor Indosphere).
When Thai/Tai(Tai-kadai) migrates into Sourtheast Asia in between 10-13 century, they adapted Theravada Buddhism as their new religion(Adapted from the Khmer-empire), therefore their culture was slowly converts from Baiyue Animism culture into Indosphere culture.
"Religion" strongly affected so many cultural ideas of the people....
1.How people live their life, how people made their decision.
2.The costume they are wearing.
3.The achitechture style they are building, house/temple/palace.
4.Arts, songs, poems and borrowed words.
5.Political/Governmental system.
All these 5 factors are highly depending on the "religion".
There are so many good example around the world....
Filipino was forced by the Spainish to adapt Christianity as their religion, therefore Filipino's culture was slowly converts from Islander Animism culture into European/Latin culture.
Indonesian/Malaysian was(probably willingly) adapted Islamic as their religion, therefore their culture was slowly converts from Indosphere(Hindu) into Arabs culture.
Vietnamese was forced by the Han-Chinese to adapt Confucianism as their religion, therefore Vietnamese culture which used to be Baiyue Animism was also converted into Sinosphere culture.
Firstly, Thailand is never been part of Sinosphere (greater Chinese-influenced culture), Vietnam is.
Ancient Indonesian of Hindu-Buddha era and ancient Thai had close ties and share similar cultures. Thailand now is like what Indonesia would be if Islam never spread to the archipelago.
Genetically speaking, average modern "Malay" Indonesian has around 10% - 30% Thai genes.
In some "dna test company" like 23andme Indonesia groups with Thai, Khmer. While Filipino and Austronesian is in the separate group.
So you get the whole idea that Indonesia is pretty much in the middle of spectrum. And yes Indonesian is proud of whatever we are. It's you that desperately want to be recognized as someone else.
Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) never adapted the Indosphere culture until much later in the history which was when they migrates into Sourtheast Asia in 10-13 century (700-1000 years ago).
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Ancient Indonesian of Hindu-Buddha era and ancient Thai had close ties and share similar cultures. Thailand now is like what Indonesia would be if Islam never spread to the archipelago.
This is how it was back then...2500 years ago.
People that used to lives in "this piece of land" in the past weren't the same people who are living in "this piece of land" today.
Mon-Khmer(Austro-Asiantic) ethnic used to occupied this piece of land in the "past".
But "today" the majority ethnic of this piece of land are ethnically Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) ethnic.
70% of the population of this land "today" are Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) ethnic.
It's the Mon-Khmer(Austro-Asiantic) ethnic that shared ancient similarity with the Indonesian/Javanese.
While Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) ethnic never shared any ancient relationship with Indonesian/Javanese.
Quote:
Firstly, Thailand is never been part of Sinosphere (greater Chinese-influenced culture), Vietnam is.
Vietnamese was originally been living in Southeast Asia for at least over 4500 years now.
On another hand Thai/Tai(Tai-kadai) people didn't migrates into Sourtheast Asia until much later in the history, which is 700-1000 years ago(10 to 13 century) during the Mongol expansion of Asia.
There are a few different time period I need to point out here....
1. 4500 years ago
The Han-Chinese used to lives further north before they push South.
2. 3500 years ago
Han-Chinese was originated near Korea and Manchuria. The areas of Southern China wasn't originally belong to them.
3. 2200 years ago
They continue to expand Southward and invades Southern Yangtze lands from Thai/Tai(Tai-kadai) people as well other Baiyue people who also lived there too.
4. 2100 years ago
The Han dynasty finally reached South lands which belong to Baiyue people.
Thai/Tai ancestors chosen to abandon the land and starts to migrates Westward into the mountains/high land areas(refused to be occupied by the Han-Chinese).
Vietnamese ancestors chosen to continue to lives on their land(and accepted the occupation of the Han-Chinese) and this is when the Han-Chinese colonizer starts to "brainwash" the local Vietnamese to starts practice the Sinosphere(Confucianism) culture.
The occupation of Han-Chinese will continue non stop for another 1000 years until Vietnam was able to gain it's independence.
5. Thai/Tai(Tai-kadai) people continues to stayed in the mountainous areas of Southern China for another 1000 years and didn't migrates into Southeast Asia until around 10-13 century(700 to 1000 years ago).
Here is a video that uses map to explains about all of the historical events in Asia which included migration/rise of power/fall of power of all civilization in Asia started since 3000 BC (5000 years ago) up until 2019. (Everything I am talking about until now are exactly corresponds to this)
6. Thai/Tai people were always independent from the Han-Chinese and never been "directly occupied" by them. Everytime when the Northern Han invasion comes, Thai/Tai people will always abandon the land and move forward to find the next land(which finally caused them to end up here in Thailand today).
Vietnam and it's people were "directly occupied" as a province of the Han-Chinese empire for 1000 years. Vietnamese people always "insisted" to stay where they are on their own land and refuses to move away when the invasion forces comes(the Vietnamese still where they are today, even after 4500 years has passed). Vietnam was occupied by the Han dynasty and weren't able to gain it's independence until the collapse of the Tang dynasty.
So what is the conclusion do we have here??
Basically any people you see in Vietnam today who may "look like Chinese" are basically the descendants of the Han-Chinese from 1000 years occupation of Vietnam.
They are technically Chinese-Vietnamese (Chinese ethnic whom were born in Vietnam), not the real/pure/original Vietnamese ethnic.
Real original Vietnamese wouldn't look any different from the local Mon-Khmer/Austro-Asiantic tribes, because they were living next to each other in Southeast Asia for at least over 4500 years
And Vietnamese are also considered to be an Austro-Asiantic race which is the similar family to the Mon-Khmer
Quote:
In some "dna test company" like 23andme Indonesia groups with Thai, Khmer. While Filipino and Austronesian is in the separate group.
Quite funny right because when 23andme actually map the actual genetic results that they have collected. The majority of the Thai samples are genetically very different from Indonesian and Khmer(Cambodian) samples.
Indonesian and Khmer(Cambodian) samples match up with each other.
While the majority of Thai samples actually match up with Southern Chinese.(nothing surprised anyway, because the Thai/Tai people used to lives in East Asia and didn't arrive in Southeast Asia until about 700-1000 years ago, while the rest of other Sourtheast Asia been living here for at least 2500 years now.
There are multiple genetic research been done already, all of them are telling the same story.
Last edited by KhotunKhan; 04-25-2021 at 11:37 PM..
And yes Indonesian is proud of whatever we are. It's you that desperately want to be recognized as someone else.
Yes Indonesian should be proud of the history of their Southeast Asian(Austronesian/Austro-Asiantic) ancestors, that is the right thing to do.
But what the hell does this part supposed to meant anyway???
Quote:
It's you that desperately want to be recognized as someone else
What do you meant by "desperately want to be recognized as someone else"??
So you are saying that Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai)people should not be proud about the history of their ancestors?? Who are you anyway, and why should they listen to you?
Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai)people have the right to be proud of their history okay?? They were historically originated in East Asia, not Southeast Asia. They have the right to be proud of their history of East Asian origin, okay?
2500 years ago.
Last edited by KhotunKhan; 04-25-2021 at 11:52 PM..
he or she KhotunKhan is Thais or Filipino ( Thai fake ) because we often seen lot comment like this in various forums there if it talks about physical appearance he always there will definitely be there and he people always underestimate and look down on Indonesians and he always comments that he considers Indonesian looks a like indian, bangladesh bla bla and he once put pics of people of Arab descent in Indonesia saying this Indonesian pure,no problem because Indonesians is melting pot
I didn't know he was afraid to compete with Indonesian because multi-racial and ethnic ?? hehehe btw he wanted so much for people in his country to look like East Asian . Hopefully one day his country can become a province of China so that people in the world will see and presume the people's in their country as Chinese
he or she KhotunKhan is Thais or Filipino ( Thai fake ) because we often seen lot comment like this in various forums there if it talks about physical appearance he always there will definitely be there and he people always underestimate and look down on Indonesians and he always comments that he considers Indonesian looks a like indian, bangladesh bla bla and he once put pics of people of Arab descent in Indonesia saying this Indonesian pure,no problem because Indonesians is melting pot
I didn't know he was afraid to compete with Indonesian because multi-racial and ethnic ?? hehehe btw he wanted so much for people in his country to look like East Asian . Hopefully one day his country can become a province of China so that people in the world will see and presume the people's in their country as Chinese
I still don't understand your ideology here...
According to your ideology...
East Asian = Han-Chinese??
So in your opinion, no other ethnicites in this world have the right to look "East Asian" without being "Han-Chinese"?
Being Han-Chinese is the main requirements to look East Asian??
Your ideology is extremely ignorant...
You can try to go ahead and tell the Mongol, Japanese, Korean, Siberian, Tibetian, Central Asians that they are Han-Chinese and some of them will even punch you right in the face....
A good example...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
I worked in Mongolia in 2006-2008 and the Mongols made the Chinese uncomfortable and afraid to go out socially at night....this was in Mongolia. A Mongol guy working for me returned from vacation and a new Chinese employee greeted him with Ni-Hao and he was so offended that another Chinese thought he was Chinese, nearly caused a fight.
I like both the Chinese and Mongols but Mongols more for being more direct and open.
Hopefully one day his country can become a province of China so that people in the world will see and presume the people's in their country as Chinese
Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) people are proven by both historically and genetically to be East Asian, but they aren't Han-Chinese okay??
Please stop hating or racist and just accept the scientific and historical facts, okay?
Even the 100% pure blood Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) tribes who lives in the remotely isolated areas in the mountains still physically look completely East Asian.
Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) people who lives in most areas of Thailand and Laos today are proven to still be genetically very similar to the Thai/Ta/Dai(Tai-kadai) people who lives in the isolated mountains in Southern China. They are still exactly the same people, same race, look the same.
Ethnic map of Thailand (70% of Thailand population today are Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) ethnic).
Ethnic map of the Tai-kadai race.
Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) race are genetically and historically proven to be an East Asian race similar to the people in Southern China and Taiwan(to some extent).
Northern Thailand(people mostly looks East Asian, similar to the Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) tribes in China)
Eastern Thailand(people mostly looks East Asian, similar to the Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) tribes in China)
Central Thailand(people mostly looks East Asian, similar to the Thai/Tai/Dai(Tai-kadai) tribes in China)
All of these 3 regions of Northern+Eastern+Central have the combined population of around 85% of the total population of Thailand.
Southern regions of Thailand and the Cambodia borders are the only two places where you will find Southeast Asian face, but the population of these areas are low and only made up around 15% of Thailand's total population.
Sharing similar cultures means both parties have close relationship, No?
Having close relationship opens possibility of intermarriage, No?
Intermarriage?
According to the multiple genetic research documents, there weren't that many intermarriage between the ancient aboriginal of the land(Khmer/Malay) and the late comer Thai/Tai(Tai-kadai) people.
Most of the of the Khmer/Cambodian(Austro-Asiantic) were killed off from war.
Most of the Malay(Austronesian) were stay within their own group because of the strict marriage requirements of the Islamic culture.
The majority(70-80%) of the genetic of the population of Thailand "today" are proven to be very different from the genetic of the population of Cambodia and Malaysia(and the rest of Southeast Asia such as Indonesia and Philippines too).
Most of the genetic samples from Thailand usually cluster together with the genetic samples of the Southern China. (While the samples from Indonesia/Cambodia/Malaysia/Philippines usually cluster together)
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