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Old 10-14-2021, 10:48 AM
 
1,060 posts, read 406,057 times
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In China, with the one child policy, female fetuses were aborted, now there are around 40 million more males than females, and the bride price has gotten to the point where it costs over 1 million RMB total for marriage, such as having house, car, and over 500K dowry.

The thing that I don't get is, for a male family, they spent that much to get married, many times borrowing money and using 3 generations of savings to get a wife, wouldn't they want a son to pass on the family name? Wouldn't that create the sex imbalance even more?

on some documentaries, a guy has to pay like 500K dowry, he can't afford it, but the women's side later said 300K dowry but their kids must follow women's side last name, and the guy said no, his village and parents can't let that happen, but if he says no, he will never ever get a wife in the future because he would get older and the older he is the more money he must have. I was just amazed at how the guy cared more about his last name than having a family.

This whole issue has made it so rural hukou men with no education, money, will never have any shot of a wife, since rural women can go to the cities and marry a urban hukou guy. A rural women Knows the struggles, if they marry a rural man, her kids will still be rural people, but if she marries a man in the city, her kids will be urban hukou, so it's beneficial to go to the cities.
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Old 10-14-2021, 12:47 PM
 
671 posts, read 308,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accord2008 View Post
In China, with the one child policy, female fetuses were aborted, now there are around 40 million more males than females, and the bride price has gotten to the point where it costs over 1 million RMB total for marriage, such as having house, car, and over 500K dowry.

The thing that I don't get is, for a male family, they spent that much to get married, many times borrowing money and using 3 generations of savings to get a wife, wouldn't they want a son to pass on the family name? Wouldn't that create the sex imbalance even more?

on some documentaries, a guy has to pay like 500K dowry, he can't afford it, but the women's side later said 300K dowry but their kids must follow women's side last name, and the guy said no, his village and parents can't let that happen, but if he says no, he will never ever get a wife in the future because he would get older and the older he is the more money he must have. I was just amazed at how the guy cared more about his last name than having a family.

This whole issue has made it so rural hukou men with no education, money, will never have any shot of a wife, since rural women can go to the cities and marry a urban hukou guy. A rural women Knows the struggles, if they marry a rural man, her kids will still be rural people, but if she marries a man in the city, her kids will be urban hukou, so it's beneficial to go to the cities.
they are free to go to the city to work and get educated. everyone have the exact same chance to get educated and get good score to get into college.

getting a wife is expensive any where, so is having kids. get educated and enough $ to support yourself or stay in your parent's house forever.
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Old 10-15-2021, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,054 posts, read 16,755,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao View Post
they are free to go to the city to work and get educated. everyone have the exact same chance to get educated and get good score to get into college.

getting a wife is expensive any where, so is having kids. get educated and enough $ to support yourself or stay in your parent's house forever.
Uh, if you think that there is any similarity between the situation in China and anywhere else, you're nuts.

Going to the city and getting educated is super. It won't make an adequate number of women appear out of nowhere.

Getting a wife is expensive I guess -aure. but paying 500k RMB/$80K USD just for the privilege of marrying a woman with stipulations, without considering living expenses, a house, etc, is crazy. The situation is really, really bad, and there's no way to swing it otherwise. There are tens of millions of men who will never marry or even have a meaningfuk relationship.
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Old 10-15-2021, 01:26 AM
 
671 posts, read 308,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Uh, if you think that there is any similarity between the situation in China and anywhere else, you're nuts.

Going to the city and getting educated is super. It won't make an adequate number of women appear out of nowhere.

Getting a wife is expensive I guess -aure. but paying 500k RMB/$80K USD just for the privilege of marrying a woman with stipulations, without considering living expenses, a house, etc, is crazy. The situation is really, really bad, and there's no way to swing it otherwise. There are tens of millions of men who will never marry or even have a meaningfuk relationship.
what do you consider a "city" in china though? there are countless cities other than the "big 4" for people to get educated, and get into college.

it's just chinese traditional customs that people have no clue about. It's just some places that are traditionally more expensive than the other. in fact, in the "big 4" cities, those "marry money" are significantly less than some random remote places that have a tradition of making the man's family pay up.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,054 posts, read 16,755,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao View Post
what do you consider a "city" in china though? there are countless cities other than the "big 4" for people to get educated, and get into college.
You were the one who said that they were free to "move to the city" and "get educated," not me, so these are questions you should be asking yourself. I was just responding to your statement, which is imho - and, I'm sure, in that of anyone who actually looks at the situation realistically - a solution that is so overwhelmingly inadequate to the problem at hand that it's not even worth debate.



Quote:
it's just chinese traditional customs that people have no clue about. It's just some places that are traditionally more expensive than the other. in fact, in the "big 4" cities, those "marry money" are significantly less than some random remote places that have a tradition of making the man's family pay up.
Traditional Chinese customs that people have no clue about are why they are short tens of millions of women for this current young generation. No one's even sure the numbers because the CCP doesn't want to disclose it, since doing so would cause so much malaise and anguish among families and young men.

Yes: the marriage dowry is cheaper in Gansu than Guangdong. It has been and will continue to be. But, that dowry in Gansu will still be exponentially higher than it has ever been, because you are going to have tens of millions of men jockeying for favor for the affections of, basically, a single woman.

Let's say there are 40 million fewer women than men, meaning that after <9.99999.739% parity is reached and all but one Chinese woman is married to a Chinese man on the mainland, there are forty million men vying for this last woman's hand in marriage.

HOLY CRAP.

Many of those men will be well-educated. Many of them will be virtuous, intelligent, good men. It doesn't matter; they won't have a chance.

This is not about traditional culture that no non-Chinese understands. This is about a failure of government and culture, of society, which will have ramifications that will last many generations.

You can go ahead and try to shuffle it however you want. No explanation is going to make millions of girls and women appear out of thin air.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,868 posts, read 8,345,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Let's say there are 40 million fewer women than men, meaning that after <9.99999.739% parity is reached and all but one Chinese woman is married to a Chinese man on the mainland, there are forty million men vying for this last woman's hand in marriage.

HOLY CRAP.

Many of those men will be well-educated. Many of them will be virtuous, intelligent, good men. It doesn't matter; they won't have a chance.

This is not about traditional culture that no non-Chinese understands. This is about a failure of government and culture, of society, which will have ramifications that will last many generations.

You can go ahead and try to shuffle it however you want. No explanation is going to make millions of girls and women appear out of thin air.
Exactly why China should allow same sex marriage. These 40 million men could just marry each other and be happy lol.
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Old 10-15-2021, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,054 posts, read 16,755,572 times
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Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Exactly why China should allow same sex marriage. These 40 million men could just marry each other and be happy lol.
It is ironic how this is a solution, but Xi just had an edict banning "sissy" men from media... Imho they should be accepting alternative interpretations of masculinity and embracing different sexualities because if they let gay men be openly gay or transwomen be openly trans then those people would be removing themselves from that competition.

Make movies about gay soldiers. Have sitcoms about gay farmers in the rural interior. Etc

This wouldn't be a total solution and it would require them to focus on gay men over women to make it work the most, which is hypocritical and gross but compared to other things they've done in the past...
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Elysium
12,281 posts, read 7,988,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
It is ironic how this is a solution, but Xi just had an edict banning "sissy" men from media... Imho they should be accepting alternative interpretations of masculinity and embracing different sexualities because if they let gay men be openly gay or transwomen be openly trans then those people would be removing themselves from that competition.

Make movies about gay soldiers. Have sitcoms about gay farmers in the rural interior. Etc

This wouldn't be a total solution and it would require them to focus on gay men over women to make it work the most, which is hypocritical and gross but compared to other things they've done in the past...
However that would be sending a message other than "forget what we told your parents, go forth and multiply".

I just don't think the state cares about, or fears, their 40 million left over drones to break away from the current messaging.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:51 PM
 
1,060 posts, read 406,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao View Post
they are free to go to the city to work and get educated. everyone have the exact same chance to get educated and get good score to get into college.

getting a wife is expensive any where, so is having kids. get educated and enough $ to support yourself or stay in your parent's house forever.
The issue is rural men, even if they beat the odds and get educated, have a good job, if they marry a rural hukou female, their kids will still have rural hukou and it will be hard for their kids to get married. The rural educated man must marry a woman with a decent city hukou to have any chance of having his offspring be city people.

My friend in China came to the states for college, his family is USD millionaire, and when I visited him in China, he was in Beijing and his parents told him to only marry Beijing hukou women, he has rural hukou but his family got rich. It was still hard for him to find a decent woman that has being hukou. Women on his same level won't talk to him, whereas women who are not as rich as him still look at his hukou and judged him. He told me had he had a Beijing hukou, he would be the top .01% of men.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:54 PM
 
671 posts, read 308,696 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by accord2008 View Post
The issue is rural men, even if they beat the odds and get educated, have a good job, if they marry a rural hukou female, their kids will still have rural hukou and it will be hard for their kids to get married. The rural educated man must marry a woman with a decent city hukou to have any chance of having his offspring be city people.

My friend in China came to the states for college, his family is USD millionaire, and when I visited him in China, he was in Beijing and his parents told him to only marry Beijing hukou women, he has rural hukou but his family got rich. It was still hard for him to find a decent woman that has being hukou. Women on his same level won't talk to him, whereas women who are not as rich as him still look at his hukou and judged him. He told me had he had a Beijing hukou, he would be the top .01% of men.

I think you are confused on the reason for your friend's family wanting Beijing hukou bride.

This is because they are ultra rich, and the only thing a Beijing hukou grants now a days is the license to purchase additional real estates in Beijing.

If your friend gets a wife that have Beijing hukou, then his family is allowed to purchase one more apartment in the city.

So this only affects the top one percent of the population that are loaded and wanting to purchase real estates in high demand cities

Gone are the days where hukou determines all the social benefits. Now a days it's nothing but a license to buy more to invest in the housing market.
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