China High Speed Rail - Failure - Near Bankrupt (kids, pros, conditions)

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Greysholic

That’s laughable. Canada is one of the most sparsely populated countries in the world. By area it’s larger than China but the population size is about 3% as large. Of course HSR wouldn’t be viable. It might be viable on US east coast, like say a line from Boston to DC, but that’s about it

It's weird to think that's laughable or maybe you're unfamiliar with Canada. I doubt that poster is talking HSR criss-crossing the country, but probably instead the corridor where Toroton, Ottawa and Montreal are. If the US and Canada ever work out the kinks of preclearance for cross border train routes, then that route also might do well to connect to Detroit-Chicago or to NYC via Buffalo, and the Pacific Northwest line from Vancouver to Seattle would be pretty good.

[Greysholic]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

It's weird to think that's laughable or maybe you're unfamiliar with Canada. I doubt that poster is talking HSR criss-crossing the country, but probably instead the corridor where Toroton, Ottawa and Montreal are. If the US and Canada ever work out the kinks of preclearance for cross border train routes, then that route also might do well to connect to Detroit-Chicago or to NYC via Buffalo, and the Pacific Northwest line from Vancouver to Seattle would be pretty good.

If that works out then cool, but I don’t see that happening.

[Ice_Major]

China gets the following benefits out of the rail system, even though it is technically unprofitable

1) shows citizens that the government is getting things done
2) encourages settlement of the vast interior west and the Tibetan plateau
3) employs citizens
4) allows it to grow it technological expertise, and eventually export to other countries
5) provides means for rural populations to access the cities

Infrastructure is an unprofitable venture (at least on the grand scale). This is the reason why governments have historically handled it. You can't measure its success strictly on profitability. Have to take into account social and geopolitical achievements.

[citizensadvocate]

I be curious is it still true that the proposed yet to be built single 400 mile line CAHSR's projected cost to complete the project is still higher than the entire 10,000 kilometer system China had built?

I am not surprised that COVID lockdowns derails the HSR vision.

I always thought they built HSR to free up traditional rail capacity to move their over increasing freight load.

[orbiter]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

I be curious is it still true that the proposed yet to be built single 400 mile line CAHSR's projected cost to complete the project is still higher than the entire 10,000 kilometer system China had built?

I am not surprised that COVID lockdowns derails the HSR vision.

I always thought they built HSR to free up traditional rail capacity to move their over increasing freight load.

Any idea of the budget estimate slated for the "proposed 400 mile line CAHSR" ?

According to this article:
"New York is undergoing its biggest subway expansion in 50 years with the Second Avenue Subway.
The stretch between 63rd Street and 96th was completed in 2017, and it cost $1.7 billion per kilometre. "
https://www.theb1m.com/video/how-new...pensive-subway

[pdw]

Originally Posted by Ice_Major

China gets the following benefits out of the rail system, even though it is technically unprofitable

1) shows citizens that the government is getting things done
2) encourages settlement of the vast interior west and the Tibetan plateau
3) employs citizens
4) allows it to grow it technological expertise, and eventually export to other countries
5) provides means for rural populations to access the cities

Infrastructure is an unprofitable venture (at least on the grand scale). This is the reason why governments have historically handled it. You can't measure its success strictly on profitability. Have to take into account social and geopolitical achievements.

Uh oh trying to change the demographics so the local minority groups get pushed out?

[recycled]

Originally Posted by pdw

Uh oh trying to change the demographics so the local minority groups get pushed out?

My gosh, that is just terrible! Why, that sounds almost like how western Canada and the western USA got populated by "settlers" from the crowded cities of the east coast after the railroads were built across the great plains in the 19th century!

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by orbiter

Any idea of the budget estimate slated for the "proposed 400 mile line CAHSR" ?

According to this article:
"New York is undergoing its biggest subway expansion in 50 years with the Second Avenue Subway.
The stretch between 63rd Street and 96th was completed in 2017, and it cost $1.7 billion per kilometre. "
https://www.theb1m.com/video/how-new...pensive-subway

Right now it’s about $100 billion dollars and likely to go over budget which is about the similar as how much China spent building their current existing HSR system. Makes me curious what is the main expensive section of CAHSR. What I can think is the San Gabriel Mountains it must pass through.

I remember the original cost being about $35 billion while they first planned it while the six mile BART extension in the Bay Area costed around 6 billion. Thus a metro rail costs much more per mile to build than HSR.

[pdw]

Originally Posted by recycled

My gosh, that is just terrible! Why, that sounds almost like how western Canada and the western USA got populated by "settlers" from the crowded cities of the east coast after the railroads were built across the great plains in the 19th century!

You’re not wrong. I guess the CCP prides themselves on having the moral compass of 19th century imperialists

[arr430]

The US judges success by how much stockholders profit from it. China judges success by how much it improves th e well[being of the users.

Not the same.