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They are literally forcibly locking people up in Australia for walking a block away from their house because they had no "valid reason to be out today." Take a look at 7:58 for that lovely exchange.
I get that China is supposed to be the boogieman today, but China is hardly alone with some of these harsh hand tactics.
Again, this is a "democratic" society.
That said, I think people see democratic society and automatically assume freedom of choice, movement, etc., when that is not what democracy means. Yes, it is true that personal freedoms are often realized via democratic means in democratic societies, but there is nothing inherent in democracy that equates to freedom (other than freedom to choose what the law will be, either directly or indirectly). Democratic societies can have rather repressive laws and policies if that's what the majority (either directly or through the majority's representatives) has decided on.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 01-16-2022 at 05:08 PM..
My gosh, that is just terrible! Why, that sounds almost like how western Canada and the western USA got populated by "settlers" from the crowded cities of the east coast after the railroads were built across the great plains in the 19th century!
But some democratic societies aren't exactly shining examples of "freedom" either, such as what's going on in Australia. Fundamentally, democracy doesn't guarantee freedom. If a majority decides to let the government have it's way via the will of the people, that's still democracy, but the results can be nothing to make light of.
But, will Australia send people to prison indefinitely for making videos criticising the policies?
My gosh, that is just terrible! Why, that sounds almost like how western Canada and the western USA got populated by "settlers" from the crowded cities of the east coast after the railroads were built across the great plains in the 19th century!
Yes, it's generally been established that the genocides that took place in the 19th century were bad things.
Trying to use this to invalidate criticism of the same thing happening today, in the 21st century, while acknowledging that if was a bad thing, is a tactic so brilliant, it comes with an extra chromosome.
But, will Australia send people to prison indefinitely for making videos criticising the policies?
Is this part of China's pandemic response? I don't defend China's abuses on a greater scale or even during the pandemic. Rather, I was referring specifically to similarities between pandemic related restrictions and what many would call government abuses in China vs. Australia, a western democratic society. For some reason, many believe the myth that democracy equals freedom and respect for individual liberty.
Is this part of China's pandemic response? I don't defend China's abuses on a greater scale or even during the pandemic. Rather, I was referring specifically to similarities between pandemic related restrictions and what many would call government abuses in China vs. Australia, a western democratic society. For some reason, many believe the myth that democracy equals freedom and respect for individual liberty.
The big difference is not liberty. Before the pandemic, many argued they felt more free in China as the government left people alone if they were not a threat to the CCP, while in other countries you will need a license to do anything.
The big difference is accountability. Unless CCP allows it, CCP leaders are not held accountable for their crimes or their mismanagement. People who gets unjustly imprisoned, don't get justice in China. Women who get raped by CCP officals, don't get any justice in China and if an economic policy fails then there is no analysis on what went wrong.
This is a common problem of dictatorships, and not exclusive to China. Dictators who understand this, try to set up systems that hold leaders accountable. But Xi doesn't get it, and leaders are only held accountable when it is convenient or when the public anger can't be controlled or suppressed.
Hence, when Australia locks down a territory, then it will be held accountable for the consequences of the lockdown. That means, Australia has to put a lot more effort in ensuring that people are treated well. China doesn't need to that, which leads to a lot of injustice. Earlier, it mostly affected CCP critics, but now anyone can be unlucky and get stuck in a container or underground parking, because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
The big difference is not liberty. Before the pandemic, many argued they felt more free in China as the government left people alone if they were not a threat to the CCP, while in other countries you will need a license to do anything.
The big difference is accountability. Unless CCP allows it, CCP leaders are not held accountable for their crimes or their mismanagement. People who gets unjustly imprisoned, don't get justice in China. Women who get raped by CCP officals, don't get any justice in China and if an economic policy fails then there is no analysis on what went wrong.
This is a common problem of dictatorships, and not exclusive to China. Dictators who understand this, try to set up systems that hold leaders accountable. But Xi doesn't get it, and leaders are only held accountable when it is convenient or when the public anger can't be controlled or suppressed.
Hence, when Australia locks down a territory, then it will be held accountable for the consequences of the lockdown. That means, Australia has to put a lot more effort in ensuring that people are treated well. China doesn't need to that, which leads to a lot of injustice. Earlier, it mostly affected CCP critics, but now anyone can be unlucky and get stuck in a container or underground parking, because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sure, accountability is huge and is a big part of a democratic society. But my point was on the realities facing people in their day to day lives today on account of government via pandemic related restrictions. Australians get to vote this year over whether they'll choose to continue certain policies--the Chinese don't, going to your point. But I was merely touching and comparing pandemic restrictions on liberty--whether freedom to travel or other liberties--between China and some other places today. While I'd prefer to live under a system having greater accountability than one having little accountability, accountability tomorrow doesn't change people's reality today.
Also, in practice, democratic societies have had their own sordid history of protecting the rich (tax and other policy), unjustly imprisoning the poor (abuses by police and prosecutors that disproportionately impact the poor, if only because of how the deck is stacked against the poor when it comes to knowledge of rights and access to quality attorneys), shielding the powerful, etc.
Sure, accountability is huge and is a big part of a democratic society. But my point was on the realities facing people in their day to day lives today on account of government via pandemic related restrictions. Australians get to vote this year over whether they'll choose to continue certain policies--the Chinese don't, going to your point. But I was merely touching and comparing pandemic restrictions on liberty--whether freedom to travel or other liberties--between China and some other places today. While I'd prefer to live under a system having greater accountability than one having little accountability, accountability tomorrow doesn't change people's reality today.
Also, in practice, democratic societies have had their own sordid history of protecting the rich (tax and other policy), unjustly imprisoning the poor (abuses by police and prosecutors that disproportionately impact the poor, if only because of how the deck is stacked against the poor when it comes to knowledge of rights and access to quality attorneys), shielding the powerful, etc.
When travel get restricted, communities get locked down, schools get closed, health care get restricted and people need to stand in line to get a daily test, then it does affect people's day to day lives. Some people have businesses that will lose money, some people have very important reasons to travel out of their communities, and some people will die if they don't get medical care, etc.
When Norway closed down kindergarten and schools, there was an exception for kids who lived with essential workers and there was a quite generous compensation system for businesses that got affected. I bet Australia had similar policies. The reason this exists is because leaders are held accountable and terrible stories of injustice will make them lose their job. As the pandemic restrictions is affecting large parts of China either directly or indirectly, then this is making a difference in people's day to day life.
And yes, democratic societies are not perfectly accountable. But, they are much better than China under Xi.
When travel get restricted, communities get locked down, schools get closed, health care get restricted and people need to stand in line to get a daily test, then it does affect people's day to day lives. Some people have businesses that will lose money, some people have very important reasons to travel out of their communities, and some people will die if they don't get medical care, etc.
When Norway closed down kindergarten and schools, there was an exception for kids who lived with essential workers and there was a quite generous compensation system for businesses that got affected. I bet Australia had similar policies. The reason this exists is because leaders are held accountable and terrible stories of injustice will make them lose their job. As the pandemic restrictions is affecting large parts of China either directly or indirectly, then this is making a difference in people's day to day life.
And yes, democratic societies are not perfectly accountable. But, they are much better than China under Xi.
Not if the electorate supports the heavy-handed policies of government.
Schools were closed for many months in parts of Australia due to the lockdown, to include up to a rather late part of last year in Sysney: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...ne-2021-10-17/ If Australia's forced school closures and move to remote learning are anything like many school districts in the US, there likely was no exception for kids who lived with essential workers; such was the power of teacher's unions and the ruling political bodies. Schools were closed throughout many districts, period. Essential workers had to fend for themselves in many cases: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...orkers/615931/ There were alternatives in terms of private daycare, etc., but the overwhelming majority of the time this would mean parents having to spend money they didn't have in order to make that option work. Many essential workers were forced to leave their kids home alone as they would get fired if they didn't show up to work (the Atlantic article touches a little on that). Considering that Australia is a federation like the US where states have extensive powers and the federal government is one of limited powers, I'd wager that Australia's case is closer to the US than to Norway, which is unitary state. In Australia, just like in the US, education policy is primarily the responsibility of the states vice federal government.
Again, democracy doesn't inherently equal freedom or respect for individual liberties.
We can figure out if there are some nuances of difference between Australia's policies and China's policies. My point has been that there seem to be quite a few similarities as well.
I get that China is supposed to be the boogieman today, but China is hardly alone with some of these harsh hand tactics.
"Why Did the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Take on Fox News?
In an investigative series, the ABC laid out the connection between misleading reporting on Fox and the January 6 unrest in Washington, DC. " LINK
Good ole Fox News in a tit for tat with Australian TV.
And remember. The dictum - FAIR AND BALANCED - has been removed from Fox News.
Fox News ratings went down dramatically after the last presidential election.
Folks went to Newsmax for the "real" unbalanced news.
So Fox News deleted the Fair and Balanced and just moved onto "real" unbalanced news.
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