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The US has been an aggressor nation for hundreds of years and we need to just stop it.
I'm not sure about that. First, the U.S. did not become a global power until after WW-II. Last I checked, that was not "hundreds of years".
Second, the U.S. Navy by becoming a global power, has maintained global maritime peace thereby promoting the global commerce trade by making shipping of goods SAFE.
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I hope and pray there's never a war with China, that would be insane.
I think the best the US can do is provide arms to Taiwan to dissuade China aggression.
I think that's the best case scenario but it's really upto China to decide. The best U.S. can do is to "strategically deter" China by making the U.S. Navy strong & powerful so China will think twice about taking on the U.S.
Yes providing arms to Taiwan will help but in reality without the U.S. directly engaging in the fight in case China decided to attack. Taiwan is as good as toast.
I be curious would anyone especially International courts get a closer look or review at the Treaty of San Francisco which seem to be worded very vaguely. If Taiwan indeed belonged to China all this time China wouldn't need to fight as its their land they had full rights all this time, the current shadow of the Nationalists would lose all authority to govern Taiwan. China obviously would mean Beijing as the Nationalists had lost. That is unless they resist and try to become independent than it would be the same as Tibet or Xinjiang pulling the same thing. If Taiwan indeed became an unincorporated terrority of the US or another country ever since it was relinquished by Japan than China would have to go through that country if they want Taiwan back. Nowadays its very murky who Taiwan really belong to its interesting that defacto its belongs to the Nationalist party of China while running kind of independently of CCP it was truly a chaotic wartime situation back in the 1950s thus the issue was not touched since.
I believe China didn't want to stir up that can of worms by attacking Taiwan all these years as it may then be officially ruled Taiwan at least from Penghu and eastwards belonged to the US all this time and they would lose or made to relinquish all claims so they wanted Taiwan to eventually give themselves in instead.
I be curious would anyone especially International courts get a closer look or review at the Treaty of San Francisco which seem to be worded very vaguely. If Taiwan indeed belonged to China all this time China wouldn't need to fight as its their land they had full rights all this time, the current shadow of the Nationalists would lose all authority to govern Taiwan. China obviously would mean Beijing as the Nationalists had lost. That is unless they resist and try to become independent than it would be the same as Tibet or Xinjiang pulling the same thing. If Taiwan indeed became an unincorporated terrority of the US or another country ever since it was relinquished by Japan than China would have to go through that country if they want Taiwan back. Nowadays its very murky who Taiwan really belong to its interesting that defacto its belongs to the Nationalist party of China while running kind of independently of CCP it was truly a chaotic wartime situation back in the 1950s thus the issue was not touched since.
I believe China didn't want to stir up that can of worms by attacking Taiwan all these years as it may then be officially ruled Taiwan at least from Penghu and eastwards belonged to the US all this time and they would lose or made to relinquish all claims so they wanted Taiwan to eventually give themselves in instead.
well, your so call "treaty of san francisco" have nothing to do with china. neither chinese party was present.
and the fact that hong kong was not returned to china at that point shows the hypocrisy of diplomacy. there is no diplomacy the weak.
In that case it’s likely Taiwan was relinquished from JApan to a third country all along and likely the U.S. all this time. Since neither China showed up and insisted they wanted it back or to take over it. Thus those who immigrated to US should ever had to pay $10,000 for the “privilege†to do so as it’s their right as US Nationals. Some sources say US allowed the Nationalists to to take control as it was a chaotic situation for the US to take over at that time. There were some “sources†that say they had a chance to adopt the US dollar as their official currency but turned it down I am not so sure of the accuracy of such claim though. As it appears interestingly the neighboring Philippines despite being US terrority kept own Pesos instead of fully adopting US dollars unlike every other US terrority. .
Today Taiwan remains under a very confusing situation which it’s not quite this nor that. But defacto ran by nationalists independent of the CCP all these years.
If Taiwan wants independence it would likely be dealing with another country that is not China whether it’s the U.S. or otherwise.
It’s interesting I hear most countries don’t recognize Taiwan as a country but nowadays they are recognizing its passport more favorable than Chinese passports. In the US which long has a one China stance they miraculously since 2012 gave ROC passport holders with Taiwan Area registration visa waiver access which they still deny to Hong Kong and Macau SAR passport holders(the excuse being they are part of One China) while other countries give Hong Kong holders much more access than mainland passport holders. Though allowing Taiwan residents special treatment with their passport kind of defeats the one China principle. Interesting right?
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 07-29-2023 at 08:32 PM..
In that case it’s likely Taiwan was relinquished from JApan to a third country all along and likely the U.S. all this time. Since neither China showed up and insisted they wanted it back or to take over it. Thus those who immigrated to US should ever had to pay $10,000 for the “privilege†to do so as it’s their right as US Nationals. Some sources say US allowed the Nationalists to to take control as it was a chaotic situation for the US to take over at that time. There were some “sources†that say they had a chance to adopt the US dollar as their official currency but turned it down I am not so sure of the accuracy of such claim though. As it appears interestingly the neighboring Philippines despite being US terrority kept own Pesos instead of fully adopting US dollars unlike every other US terrority. .
Today Taiwan remains under a very confusing situation which it’s not quite this nor that. But defacto ran by nationalists independent of the CCP all these years.
If Taiwan wants independence it would likely be dealing with another country that is not China whether it’s the U.S. or otherwise.
It’s interesting I hear most countries don’t recognize Taiwan as a country but nowadays they are recognizing its passport more favorable than Chinese passports. In the US which long has a one China stance they miraculously since 2012 gave ROC passport holders with Taiwan Area registration visa waiver access which they still deny to Hong Kong and Macau SAR passport holders(the excuse being they are part of One China) while other countries give Hong Kong holders much more access than mainland passport holders. Though allowing Taiwan residents special treatment with their passport kind of defeats the one China principle. Interesting right?
you may want to check your history, all parts of china including tw was returned to china as the chinese government accepts surrender from japan.
the only exception was the northern eastern 3 provinces that was held by soviet (which was eventually returned due to the KMT allowing outer mongolia to become independent)
you may want to check your history, all parts of china including tw was returned to china as the chinese government accepts surrender from japan.
It wasn't returned to "China", it was returned to the "Republic of China".
Before 1971, it was the ROC that was recognized as China and not PRC. Yet, the PRC would laugh at the idea that they should give their territory to the ROC. PRC claim on Taiwan is even weaker.
The US has been an aggressor nation for hundreds of years and we need to just stop it.
Hundreds of years? I always knew the U.S. was responsible for The War or the Roses!
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Originally Posted by Camlon
It wasn't returned to "China", it was returned to the "Republic of China".
Before 1971, it was the ROC that was recognized as China and not PRC. Yet, the PRC would laugh at the idea that they should give their territory to the ROC. PRC claim on Taiwan is even weaker.
Absolutely correct. In fact CCP/PRC never once set foot on Taiwan soil.
All of China's territories whether be it Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing, the SARS, etc, used to belong to the ROC but was turned over to PRC between 1950-1971 thats why it was controversal the status of overseas Chinese as PRC didn't recognize dual nationality as ROC did and many of them overseas Chinese migrated from China when China was under ROC control and they held ROC passport, those people became defacto stateless since 1971 since the ROC officially ceased to exist. It was then ruled that as long as the "Chinese" national did not inherit another nation's nationality under their own free will and was solely Chinese National they have right of return to the PRC.
Its quite interesting as Taiwan was soley a military occupation just as with some of the others and never truely a civil terrority of Japan or other countries. Thus after demilitarization or pulling oout they completely lose that occupation and the people there who arn't naturalized or married to an officer are no longer subjects. Its interesting though how it became a perpetual military occupation of a "national government" that no longer exists after the US pulled away. And forced its men to perform military service to someday retake their motherland. Though from people who lived there with KMT I heard there were negotiations with the US that they become US terrority with access to US dollars and that they can seek asylum on the island but that was turned down instead the KMT really wanted the US to assist them militarily to retake thier motherland which was mainland China which the US in turn refused but kind of compromised to assist them if mainland crosses the straight. And the territory control issue wasn't revisited since. At least Thats what I heard via Chinese language sources.
https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/europe...riod4.htmlThis documents states US occupied Taiwan for a while but nowadays US has no bases in Taiwan. https://www.taiwanadvice.com/tw_insular55b.htmSituation may be a bit similar to Hong Kong where it is still technically Chinese but occupied temporarily by the UK.
Apparently, this murky situation is what kept the CCP from exercising direct governmental control over Taiwan directly in the beginning. But those on the island constantly lived in fear. Though it shows how the island legally should had become US territory since the Japanese surrender and that KMT had no authority to say no.
The Philippines is an interesting situation where they were occupied by the US and its people bona fide US nationals but became independent without much resistance from the US and kept their local currency rather than fully adapting the US dollar I heard unlike most any other US territory.
Apparently military occupations don't get as much legal protections and nationality rights as civil land. But the article says other US insular territories stayed that way as no one else took over then i.e Puerto Rico. It would officially become a US terrority.
Also in the event Taiwan is indeed Chinese territory since 1955 then it is just as Chinese as Beijing, Tibet, Xiamen, or Hong Kong whether or not they sat foot on it or not. Thus no need to fight and its entirely internal affairs thus no countries would be able to interfere. And the US wouldn't had the authority to offer what they offered in the early days since the land never belonged to them. If its indeed part of the US than the US has full rights to it meaning if they declare independence its the US not China that would have to approve. If China wants to claim it back they will need to have a word with the US.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 07-30-2023 at 05:22 PM..
All of China's territories whether be it Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing, the SARS, etc, used to belong to the ROC but was turned over to PRC between 1950-1971 thats why it was controversal the status of overseas Chinese as PRC didn't recognize dual nationality as ROC did and many of them overseas Chinese migrated from China when China was under ROC control and they held ROC passport, those people became defacto stateless since 1971 since the ROC officially ceased to exist. It was then ruled that as long as the "Chinese" national did not inherit another nation's nationality under their own free will and was solely Chinese National they have right of return to the PRC.
Its quite interesting as Taiwan was soley a military occupation just as with some of the others and never truely a civil terrority of Japan or other countries. Thus after demilitarization or pulling oout they completely lose that occupation and the people there who arn't naturalized or married to an officer are no longer subjects. Its interesting though how it became a perpetual military occupation of a "national government" that no longer exists after the US pulled away. And forced its men to perform military service to someday retake their motherland. Though from people who lived there with KMT I heard there were negotiations with the US that they become US terrority with access to US dollars and that they can seek asylum on the island but that was turned down instead the KMT really wanted the US to assist them militarily to retake thier motherland which was mainland China which the US in turn refused but kind of compromised to assist them if mainland crosses the straight. And the territory control issue wasn't revisited since. At least Thats what I heard via Chinese language sources.
https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/europe...riod4.htmlThis documents states US occupied Taiwan for a while but nowadays US has no bases in Taiwan. https://www.taiwanadvice.com/tw_insular55b.htmSituation may be a bit similar to Hong Kong where it is still technically Chinese but occupied temporarily by the UK.
Apparently, this murky situation is what kept the CCP from exercising direct governmental control over Taiwan directly in the beginning. But those on the island constantly lived in fear. Though it shows how the island legally should had become US territory since the Japanese surrender and that KMT had no authority to say no.
The Philippines is an interesting situation where they were occupied by the US and its people bona fide US nationals but became independent without much resistance from the US and kept their local currency rather than fully adapting the US dollar I heard unlike most any other US territory.
Apparently military occupations don't get as much legal protections and nationality rights as civil land. But the article says other US insular territories stayed that way as no one else took over then i.e Puerto Rico. It would officially become a US terrority.
Also in the event Taiwan is indeed Chinese territory since 1955 then it is just as Chinese as Beijing, Tibet, Xiamen, or Hong Kong whether or not they sat foot on it or not. Thus no need to fight and its entirely internal affairs thus no countries would be able to interfere. And the US wouldn't had the authority to offer what they offered in the early days since the land never belonged to them. If its indeed part of the US than the US has full rights to it meaning if they declare independence its the US not China that would have to approve. If China wants to claim it back they will need to have a word with the US.
The legal talk doesn't work at this level.. Might equals right. The current situation is the outcome of neither side (the U.S., China, or Taiwan) has the might to alter the current situation.
Hundreds of years? I always knew the U.S. was responsible for The War or the Roses!
Absolutely correct. In fact CCP/PRC never once set foot on Taiwan soil.
china was returned to the KMT, then they lost it to CPC, which only taiwan left.
they are both china though. Many CPC members joined KMT in the early years of the republic.
i don't know how you determined the last part. I'm sure there are many CPC supporters in taiwan since 1949.
In fact, there were many KMT members that were held prison or executed in taiwan by Chiang that supported CPC and tried to defect.
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