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It's so ambiguous such that we cannot even agree if it's a independent country/state/sovereign nation (whatever you want to call it) or not.
In the One China policy as accepted by the US, the fact that China is an independent sovereign nation and Taiwan is part of China, is clear. The question is what constitutes as the nation of China. The US recognises PRC China as an official nation, while it does not to the ROC.
If you recognise the PRC China as an official country then don't make it look like you recognise ROC China as one, at least verbally and formally. Then the ROC can run itself, do its own thing, have unofficial relations around the world. And that's the current status quo.
So again Taiwan is not a country, but wink wink. That's the stance governments around the world have to take.
Verbal gymnastics made official. The rest of the blame game I'm not getting into lol, but I concede it was enlightening to delve into the topic of Taiwan's status. Entertaining stuff.
Last edited by ciTydude123; 07-26-2023 at 11:50 AM..
Historically, you can even make the case that Taiwan belongs to Japan still.
Taiwan was taken from Qing China by Japan after the losing the first Sino Japanese war. Before that Taiwan was a part of China for longer than the US has existed as a nation. But in any case what matters is now, would you still call Turkey the Ottoman Empire but partially?
Alright one last post from me. Here's the simplest layman terms I can put it.
The US aknowledges the One China policy. The One China policy mentions "there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China".
The PRC is recognised as the sole legitimate government in China. Therefore accordingly, the PRC should be aknowledged as the sole legitimate government in Taiwan. (I know this will trigger some here so notice the word "should be", not "is")
However, a status quo exists that allows the ROC to survive as its own self governing entity, so long as it isn't recognised by other governments formally or verbally.
This is the current position, and the current position is the one that matters today.
So the focus should not be on framing Taiwan as its own legitimate country because that much is clear. Rather focus on the status quo that keep Taiwan in its current form alive. I believe that should be a matter for the people of Taiwan to decide themselves.
Anyways that's it from me. It's only that this matter piqued my curiosity and after looking up the specifics found it pretty fascinating. Tells you how complicated, mind contorting foreign relations can get. A massive word salad.
Last edited by ciTydude123; 07-26-2023 at 03:19 PM..
The US aknowledges the One China policy. The One China policy mentions "there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China".
The keyword here is "acknowledges", not "agrees" or "support". Hence the strategic ambiguity.
Back in 1970s when they drew up this agreement in preparation of Nixon/Kissenger visit with China. Both governments on either side of Taiwan Strait maintained the position that "there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China", yes even the ROC maintained they are the legitimate government representing China, so the U.S. "acknowledges" this position - a diplomatic way to avoid confronting this issue.
Quote:
The PRC is recognised as the sole legitimate government in China. Therefore accordingly, the PRC should be aknowledged as the sole legitimate government in Taiwan. (I know this will trigger some here so notice the word "should be", not "is")
Not true. This is not the U.S. policy. The Congress passed the bill "Taiwan Relations Act" with strong political support to guarantee Taiwan by providing weapons so they can defend against China if it should attack.
Quote:
So the focus should not be on framing Taiwan as its own legitimate country because that much is clear. Rather focus on the status quo that keep Taiwan in its current form alive. I believe that should be a matter for the people of Taiwan to decide themselves..
I don't think the U.S. will support the position if the people of Taiwan decided they want to be an independent Nation.
The U.S. supports the peaceful coexistence between China & Taiwan, or a peaceful unification between China & Taiwan.
And that's what I said about it being a word salad.
Yes aknowledge not recognise or support. Like a grown up version of 10 year olds bickering about who gets time with the next toy.
That's the theory or principle I laid out. Whether or how the the US wants to act on it with the policies it makes is a different story. Like I said it's kind of like a double game with words and action.
If there is ever any military action then technically it's a civil war, and you can argue a stance to intervene because it's causes suffering. But again it's nothing but speculative for now and everyone should hope it remains that way.
Last edited by ciTydude123; 07-27-2023 at 01:42 AM..
And that's what I said about it being a word salad.
Yes aknowledge not recognise or support. Like a grown up version of 10 year olds bickering about who gets time with the next toy.
That's the theory or principle I laid out. Whether or how the the US wants to act on it with the policies it makes is a different story. Like I said it's kind of like a double game with words and action.
If there is ever any military action then technically it's a civil war, and you can argue a stance to intervene because it's causes suffering. But again it's nothing but speculative for now and everyone should hope it remains that way.
Playing with words like this is meaningless. The best you can achieve is to show that the USA is dishonest.
Taiwan is a de facto independent country, and the PRC has never controlled Taiwan. If China invades, then we are defending the status quo and Taiwan's right to self governance.
That's the official principle I laid, you're entitled to have your own position, just like I have mine or he he has his.
There is no such thing as the official principle. Different countries have different official principles and Taiwan has never agreed that it belongs to the PRC. If you can extract from US official statements that it has said that Taiwan is part of the PRC, then it just makes the USA dishonest as it isn't the USAs real position.
The USA will follow its real position, not the position it may have accidently said by different statements made in different decades.
Then i suppose it's the principle followed by the countries that show as green on the map you gave before.
Has the US ever been honest? Iraqi WMDs Nariyeh Testimony? Otoh if China does indeed use military force then you put my words back in my mouth, it warrants a rethinking. But for now it's nothing but speculative so we should all work to keep it that way.
The base line we all agree on is that we don't want war no matter who provokes or starts it.
So we can all point the finger at each other but our actions have to reflect our consensus for no war, whether you're Chinese or American or anyone else.
Last edited by ciTydude123; 07-27-2023 at 02:25 AM..
Then i suppose it's the principle followed by the countries that show as green on the map you gave before.
Has the US ever been honest? Iraqi WMDs Nariyeh Testimony? Otoh if China does indeed use military force then you put my words back in my mouth, it warrants a rethinking. But for now it's nothing but speculative so we should all work to keep it that way.
The base line we all agree on is that we don't want war no matter who provokes or starts it.
The countries in green treat Taiwan as a country, but they avoid calling it officially to avoid retaliation from China. And the reason they treat Taiwan as a country is because they believe Taiwan is a country.
We should of course try to keep status quo and avoid unnecessary confrontation. However, I don't doubt Taiwan or the USAs commitment to the status quo. The problem is that China doesn't seem happy with the status quo. It has already destroyed the status quo in Hong Kong, is increasing its military budget, is making constants threats against Taiwan, is pushing war propaganda at home and is supporting Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
China invading Taiwan is a real possibility that we need to prepare for. If it doesn't happen, then that is great. But if it does, then Taiwan and the USAs military need to be prepared.
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