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A slightly more personal question, have you actually been to Hong Kong before? You seem to know more about Mainland China from a Mainland Chinese's perspective but can you see Hong Kong from the lens of a Hong Kong local?
Maomao is not mainland Chinese either. He is an American Chinese who most likely feels depressed about his life in the USA and hence consumes a lot of CCP propaganda. He barely visit the mainland, and if he went to Hong Kong it would just be a few days for vacation.
Maomao is not mainland Chinese either. He is an American Chinese who most likely feels depressed about his life in the USA and hence consumes a lot of CCP propaganda. He barely visit the mainland, and if he went to Hong Kong it would just be a few days for vacation.
The world and i view cantonese speakers as people who speak it without needing to use another language to explain what they're trying to say to the other person who dont understand. Theres many accents of cantonese. Theres many, many accents of mandarin, but as long as people understand each other, they are speaking mandarin. Same with english, people from the us can understand people from the uk, bit its different accents.
If maomao thinks cantonese people are not in hk, they are in certain districts of guangzhou who speak cantonese perfectly, then the whole china, maybe 10% of the people are chinese who speak putonghua perfectly and with enough vocabulary, the other 90% of people with han blood are not chinese, because they speak with an accent and have different words to describe something thats the same thing in another word in mandarin.
HK people speak Cantonese, but many locally raised don't have Cantonese identity. They still eat Cantonese food daily. Because HK is in China but is not in Guangdong. Most HK people are Chinese nationals but dont have Guangdong hukou.
And not all native HK Cantonese speakers have ancestors from Guangdong or HK. Many foreigners, mainland and taiwan chinese assume people from hk are Cantonese. But some have all of their ancestries from Fujian, Taiwan or other regions of China far from HK. There are HK Chinese without the typical Southern Chinese looks because of this. Also, those hakka and hoklo people living in HK before British rule weren't and are not regarded as Cantonese. They had different cultures and dialects from Cantonese but their descedents in hk speak Cantonese as mother tongue and eat Cantonese food daily today.
In Guangdong and HK, kids usually can speak Cantonese if their mothers or the adults taking care of them speak it regularly. Kids may not speak Cantonese if the other persons at home dont speak it.
HK people speak Cantonese, but many locally raised don't have Cantonese identity. They still eat Cantonese food daily. Because HK is in China but is not in Guangdong. Most HK people are Chinese nationals but dont have Guangdong hukou.
That is not what Maomao is arguing. He said that Hong Kongers are not Catonese including the people that have Catonese identity.
That is downright insulting, but not unexpected due to the radicalization of CCP supporters.
That is not what Maomao is arguing. He said that Hong Kongers are not Catonese including the people that have Catonese identity.
That is downright insulting, but not unexpected due to the radicalization of CCP supporters.
Sadly, I personally know individuals with the same train of thought but as this is not the P&OC Forum, will not delve further into one's personal politics. Ironically, some of my fellow American including ABC classmates who studied with me in Hong Kong that semester over two decades ago encountered misunderstandings from local students as well. One ABC classmate told me when she told local students she was Chinese, they replied saying "You're not Chinese, you're American!". Often this comes from insecurity, the type of insecurity to drive someone to label and classify others as they see fit.
That is not what Maomao is arguing. He said that Hong Kongers are not Catonese including the people that have Catonese identity.
That is downright insulting, but not unexpected due to the radicalization of CCP supporters.
Many areas of guandong, in the 80's, 90's 2000's have watched hong kong singers, drama series, movies and learned cantonese, and they learned their own dialect, plus mandarin. So if hong kong does not speak cantonese and the people are not cantonese, why are there yum cha places there? I think maomao needs hk people to wear the opera coustmes and sing cantonese opera to havd a shot of being cantonese.
TVB Pearl (Mihng Zi Toih) is the English language channel that I remember. TVB Jade (Feih Cheih Toih) is the Cantonese channel, not sure what the Mandarin channel is called. Then again things may have changed. I remember watching TVB Jade's news every 6PM (1800 hours) in the evening with glee. The programme had good intro music and the news was well reported too.
What I meant by "substratum" is a language that is no longer considered the major language anymore. Cantonese was (and probably still is) an important language in Hong Kong, taking precedence over Mandarin, but has Mandarin taken precedence over Cantonese in importance in Hong Kong now? 20+ years ago, almost every Hong Kong local business spoke Cantonese and sometimes exclusively in Cantonese to customers. The only exceptions I can think of are major bank and mercantile headquarters in Central where they expect you to speak in English. Is that still the case? That will determine how important Cantonese is in Hong Kong.
A slightly more personal question, have you actually been to Hong Kong before? You seem to know more about Mainland China from a Mainland Chinese's perspective but can you see Hong Kong from the lens of a Hong Kong local? I have visited Hong Kong 3 times in my life, studied there one semester during college, and have a large number of relatives there. I have experienced at least some Hong Kong views and opinions and I can tell you they are not always the same as their kin over the border in the Mainland, of course a byproduct of the long term separation of Hong Kong from the Mainland.
cantonese is one of two official language along with english.
so it will always be considered as major as english in hong kong. nothing will change that.
but that's not what i'm arguing about. as a cantonese culture enthusiast, i don't care if all of the hong konger speaks cantonese or not. I view hong kongers as guangdong people that was converted culturally.
yes, i been to hk about 3 times as well. i do share the same opinion as you, thinking that hong kongers are not like other guangzhou/guangdong people.
but i do feel that the most pure form of cantonese, the continuation of the cantonese/guangdong culture, lies with guangzhou and other parts of guangdong province, not hong kong.
Sadly, I personally know individuals with the same train of thought but as this is not the P&OC Forum, will not delve further into one's personal politics. Ironically, some of my fellow American including ABC classmates who studied with me in Hong Kong that semester over two decades ago encountered misunderstandings from local students as well. One ABC classmate told me when she told local students she was Chinese, they replied saying "You're not Chinese, you're American!". Often this comes from insecurity, the type of insecurity to drive someone to label and classify others as they see fit.
i'll just give you a simple example of these people
guangzhou/part of guangdong people, speaks cantonese and mandarin, speaks cantonese natively
vs
hong kong people, speaks cantonese and english, speaks cantonese natively
a certain vietnamese, speaks cantonese and vietnamese, speaks cantonese natively
a certain south east asian (singapore, maylasia, indonesia, other se asian countries), speaks cantonese and (malay,indoesian,english, etc.), speaks cantonese natively
is it really that hard to see which group is the representing the cantonese dialect?
i never said hong kongers are not part of cantonese speaking group, it's just that they are not the group that people should be caring about when talking about the art of cantonese dialect being continually passing on to the next generation.
like i said, the hong kongers cantonese is already tainted.
The world and i view cantonese speakers as people who speak it without needing to use another language to explain what they're trying to say to the other person who dont understand. Theres many accents of cantonese. Theres many, many accents of mandarin, but as long as people understand each other, they are speaking mandarin. Same with english, people from the us can understand people from the uk, bit its different accents.
If maomao thinks cantonese people are not in hk, they are in certain districts of guangzhou who speak cantonese perfectly, then the whole china, maybe 10% of the people are chinese who speak putonghua perfectly and with enough vocabulary, the other 90% of people with han blood are not chinese, because they speak with an accent and have different words to describe something thats the same thing in another word in mandarin.
i don't know why you keep on bringing up blood.
you know there are whites and black foreigners that lives in guangzhou that are cantonese enthusiasts and speaks pure cantonese perfectly. i'd take 1 of them over whatever number of han chinese in hong kong that speaks hong kong style cantonese.
you know there are whites and black foreigners that lives in guangzhou that are cantonese enthusiasts and speaks pure cantonese perfectly. i'd take 1 of them over whatever number of han chinese in hong kong that speaks hong kong style cantonese.
Well, it's a good thing your opinion doesn't matter and isn't policy, or Cantonese culture really would die out.
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