Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Is there anything that could ever change the views you have now? Even the staunch anti-theist Christopher Hitchens admitted on 60 minutes that he wont say nthat there is nothing that could change his mind, but he has yet to see anything that could come close
Moderator cut: Deleted
Anyone who is intellectually honest will agree that saying there is NO god takes as much faith as saying there is one.
Because you have no proof either way. So both are faith-based belief systems.
The agnostic at least allows for the chance there could be something or that there could be nothing...which, barring empirical evidence, makes the most sense from a purely logical standpoint.
Btw, you can't just choose to believe something. You either believe it or you don't.
Firstly, they criticised Plantinga's use of a Bayesian framework in which he arbitrarily assigned initial probabilities without empirical evidence, predetermining the outcome in favor of traditional theism, and described this as a recipe for replacing any non-deterministic theory in the natural sciences, so that for example a probable outcome predicted by quantum mechanics would be seen as the outcome of God's will.
???
That's not exactly how honest science works...
Yes I read it. I am also familiar with Plantinga's entire argument, and have been at a family barbeque with Elliot Sober. Plantinga's argument still stands, even with the objections, as most were not able to penetrate Plantinga's main argument. The fact that Plantinga argued on the evolution of belief as being the same as physical evolution is undeniable. What is deniable is Sober's(and others) assertions that this cannot be argued. We are left with another "no it's not" conclusion.
...but he just arbitrarily assigned the numbers, and in such a way as to automatically favor his desired outcome. Doesnt that strike you as a little unscientific? Thats a yes/no question.
No. Pointing out the existence of a gap in knowledge does not make your particular favored explanation any more likely than any other proffered explanation.
Didnt say it did make it more likely did I? I just said it remains a valid argument
...but he just arbitrarily assigned the numbers, and in such a way as to automatically favor his desired outcome. Doesnt that strike you as a little unscientific? Thats a yes/no question.
Somewhat. The question would be more like: "What is a suitable percentage to give the truth of a belief based upon the evolution of belief". I invite you to answer that. 50-50 is not such an unbelievable number.
anyone who is intellectually honest will agree that saying there is no god takes as much faith as saying there is one.
because you have no proof either way. So both are faith-based belief systems.
The agnostic at least allows for the chance there could be something or that there could be nothing...which, barring empirical evidence, makes the most sense from a purely logical standpoint.
Btw, you can't just choose to believe something. You either believe it or you don't.
Somewhat. The question would be more like: "What is a suitable percentage to give the truth of a belief based upon the evolution of belief". I invite you to answer that. 50-50 is not such an unbelievable number.
Besides that, if 50-50 is not fair, what is? There is no way to assign a number to the probability of evolutionary belief, so if even is unfair, what is fair? Sober could never come up with a number that was, only could state that Plantinga's numbers were biased towards Theism. 50%? That doesn't seem a bias. If it is, I'll take Plantinga's numbers at 25%.
Anyone who is intellectually honest will agree that saying there is NO god takes as much faith as saying there is one.
Because you have no proof either way. So both are faith-based belief systems.
Stating that atheism is a belief system is like saying bald is a hair color. The lack of belief is not a belief. It simply is not there.
BYW, most atheists are agnostics. We are not certain there is no god, as it cannot be absolutely proven. We have chosen not to believe in one (or we have realized that we already don't).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
