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I believe that is because of their black/white, good/evil, right/wrong way of thinking. There are no nuances, no in=betweens. it has struck me over the years on this forum that this way of thinking is a large part of why conversations with fundamentalists go nowhere. When you say something that's meant to evoke thought or more in-depth conversation, they immediately try to fit it into the good/evil boxes, effectively ending any progress.
In her late fifties, my mother experienced some despondency that was probably a result of life's negative events coming to a head and not having ever developed the skills to manage them. She sought counseling via a Christian therapist.
She worked through her issues with this counselor and felt that it helped, but she said something interesting to me about her last visits that I didn't forget. She said the counselor had said to her, "there's one more thing I want to address with you that I've noticed that may be getting in your way. How, as a Christian, do you view the world?"
My mother said she promptly replied, "Well, on the one hand there is God and good, and on the other hand there is Satan and evil, and we have to evaluate which is which"
The counselor told her that way of thinking was a problem and helped her learn to see that not everything could be put into extreme boxes like that, and I noticed a change in my mother after that. She was more at peace by feeling less obligated to live by that way of thinking. She began to see her Christianity as a way for her to conduct her own life and not worry about others.
One moment that stands out in my head as she headed up toward 90 was the statement that "I used to be so against homosexuality, and it bothered me that Jeff (a family friend) or my cousin Gerard were gay, because I loved them both so much but I felt they were sinners, so I was torn about my feelings. But you know what? I learned it's not my place to determine if someone else is a sinner or not, it's just my job to love them. God will take care of the rest."
So this way of black-and-white thinking to which fundamentalists adhere so closely is actually a burden to them, but they don't even know it. And of course, it makes many conversations and relationships with others who don't share that point of view impossible to maintain.
That's wonderful story and a great outcome, but it explains to me the deep distrust we fundagelicals had of any form of therapy. I think it was understood that it could lead to the greater "condoning" of sin, which by their lights means, being insufficiently offended / opposed to it. Group guilt is also a "thing" -- you are not just punished for your own sins but for your insufficient efforts to control others. Eventually, your church and your nation will be punished, and you with it, if you allow too much non-conformity to your dogmas. This is what comes of seeing "sin" as something akin to an infectious disease.
We reluctantly allowed some mental health counseling within our own sect, but it was of uniformly terrible quality. My first wife's descent into madness was largely facilitated by that whole zeitgeist. Her issues were serious enough that I doubt standard-of-care mental health would have helped that much (she has since been in the county mental health system, for some 30 years now, and is basically managed as a Thorazine zombie) but it would have been safer for my children and I, I think, if our religious sect had been able to acknowledge that they were in over their head with her. Instead they just doubled down, even suggesting exorcism!
I finally found the strength to end that relationship when I woke up one night to find her standing in a trance over my bed with a butcher knife. Who knows what would have happened in a slightly alternate universe.
I believe that is because of their black/white, good/evil, right/wrong way of thinking. There are no nuances, no in-betweens. it has struck me over the years on this forum that this way of thinking is a large part of why conversations with fundamentalists go nowhere. When you say something that's meant to evoke thought or more in-depth conversation, they immediately try to fit it into the good/evil boxes, effectively ending any progress.
In her late fifties, my mother experienced some despondency that was probably a result of life's negative events coming to a head and not having ever developed the skills to manage them. She sought counseling via a Christian therapist.
She worked through her issues with this counselor and felt that it helped, but she said something interesting to me about her last visits that I didn't forget. She said the counselor had said to her, "there's one more thing I want to address with you that I've noticed that may be getting in your way. How, as a Christian, do you view the world?"
My mother said she promptly replied, "Well, on the one hand there is God and good, and on the other hand there is Satan and evil, and we have to evaluate which is which".
The counselor told her that way of thinking was a problem and helped her learn to see that not everything could be put into extreme boxes like that, and I noticed a change in my mother after that. She was more at peace by feeling less obligated to live by that way of thinking. She began to see her Christianity as a way for her to conduct her own life and not worry about others.
One moment that stands out in my head as she headed up toward 90 was the statement that "I used to be so against homosexuality, and it bothered me that Jeff (a family friend) or my cousin Gerard were gay, because I loved them both so much but I felt they were sinners, so I was torn about my feelings. But you know what? I learned it's not my place to determine if someone else is a sinner or not, it's just my job to love them. God will take care of the rest."
So this way of black-and-white thinking to which fundamentalists adhere so closely is actually a burden to them, but they don't even know it. And of course, it makes many conversations and relationships with others who don't share that point of view impossible to maintain.
This is exactly what one finds often in politics, more so in the USA than in Canada. In Canada, with 5 parties being represented in Parliament, there is more choice across the political spectrum, and as such, a successful party needs to appeal at least somewhat to the centers.
When a party swings too far to one extreme or the other, it will get punished. I suspect the trend that we are seeing with the Canadian Conservative party going more and more GOP style, that it will get hurt in the next election.
Myself, I am in the Canadian political wilderness now. Federal I would never vote for the NDP or Liberals, but I no longer can support the Conservatives either, the party (in it's various renditions) I have been a member of most of my life, and voted for them. The Canadian Green party, although I support most of their environmental policies, is too far left for me on other issues, similar to the NDP. The Liberals currently I feel have an unqualified leader, and the only cabinet minister I respect (I don't have to agree with them to respect them) is Christa Freeman. She is formidable, and will probably be the next Prime Minister.
I've often stated that I live in the buckle of a Canadian bible belt. That drives a lot of very, very conservative politics, but lately, the fundigelicals, have taken control of the conservative party. It's tough being an atheist in general, especially in a small village, where it is best to stay a bit underneath the surface. My one neighbor is extremely fundamental, on the board of the local evangelical church, yet he is one of the best neighbors I've had. I avoid both religion and politics with him, as I know where he sits on the former, and I strongly suspect I know where he sits on the later.
My other neighbor, again a great guy, is not religious, but truly on the alt-right wing of the political spectrum. He got vaccinated only because he wants to travel, but there is no way his wife will get the vaccination.
So yes, the black and white thinking is a huge part of the problem, as nuance just is not part of the discussion.
I believe that is because of their black/white, good/evil, right/wrong way of thinking. There are no nuances, no in-betweens. it has struck me over the years on this forum that this way of thinking is a large part of why conversations with fundamentalists go nowhere. When you say something that's meant to evoke thought or more in-depth conversation, they immediately try to fit it into the good/evil boxes, effectively ending any progress.
In her late fifties, my mother experienced some despondency that was probably a result of life's negative events coming to a head and not having ever developed the skills to manage them. She sought counseling via a Christian therapist.
She worked through her issues with this counselor and felt that it helped, but she said something interesting to me about her last visits that I didn't forget. She said the counselor had said to her, "there's one more thing I want to address with you that I've noticed that may be getting in your way. How, as a Christian, do you view the world?"
My mother said she promptly replied, "Well, on the one hand there is God and good, and on the other hand there is Satan and evil, and we have to evaluate which is which".
The counselor told her that way of thinking was a problem and helped her learn to see that not everything could be put into extreme boxes like that, and I noticed a change in my mother after that. She was more at peace by feeling less obligated to live by that way of thinking. She began to see her Christianity as a way for her to conduct her own life and not worry about others.
One moment that stands out in my head as she headed up toward 90 was the statement that "I used to be so against homosexuality, and it bothered me that Jeff (a family friend) or my cousin Gerard were gay, because I loved them both so much but I felt they were sinners, so I was torn about my feelings. But you know what? I learned it's not my place to determine if someone else is a sinner or not, it's just my job to love them. God will take care of the rest."
So this way of black-and-white thinking to which fundamentalists adhere so closely is actually a burden to them, but they don't even know it. And of course, it makes many conversations and relationships with others who don't share that point of view impossible to maintain.
I finally found the strength to end that relationship when I woke up one night to find her standing in a trance over my bed with a butcher knife. Who knows what would have happened in a slightly alternate universe.
Very similar story to my late great-uncle Herb and his wife, Aunt Ethel. I have a childhood memory of being at a family picnic and impressed with this fancy fruit basket made from a watermelon that this Aunt Ethel had made and overhearing my mother saying, "Ethel's about to go off again. I can see it in her eyes."
She had schizophrenia and was in and out of hospitals. When I was older, she was accusing my mother of having affair with her husband--my mother's own uncle. She took a sledgehammer to my great-uncle's car, and then the night came when he woke to her standing over him with a butcher knife, and that finished it for him. He divorced her. I believe her daughters from a previous marriage eventually had to have her committed.
This is exactly what one finds often in politics, more so in the USA than in Canada. In Canada, with 5 parties being represented in Parliament, there is more choice across the political spectrum, and as such, a successful party needs to appeal at least somewhat to the centers.
When a party swings too far to one extreme or the other, it will get punished. I suspect the trend that we are seeing with the Canadian Conservative party going more and more GOP style, that it will get hurt in the next election.
Myself, I am in the Canadian political wilderness now. Federal I would never vote for the NDP or Liberals, but I no longer can support the Conservatives either, the party (in it's various renditions) I have been a member of most of my life, and voted for them. The Canadian Green party, although I support most of their environmental policies, is too far left for me on other issues, similar to the NDP. The Liberals currently I feel have an unqualified leader, and the only cabinet minister I respect (I don't have to agree with them to respect them) is Christa Freeman. She is formidable, and will probably be the next Prime Minister.
I've often stated that I live in the buckle of a Canadian bible belt. That drives a lot of very, very conservative politics, but lately, the fundigelicals, have taken control of the conservative party. It's tough being an atheist in general, especially in a small village, where it is best to stay a bit underneath the surface. My one neighbor is extremely fundamental, on the board of the local evangelical church, yet he is one of the best neighbors I've had. I avoid both religion and politics with him, as I know where he sits on the former, and I strongly suspect I know where he sits on the later.
My other neighbor, again a great guy, is not religious, but truly on the alt-right wing of the political spectrum. He got vaccinated only because he wants to travel, but there is no way his wife will get the vaccination.
So yes, the black and white thinking is a huge part of the problem, as nuance just is not part of the discussion.
I thought the same about politics and nearly said so but hesitated for fear a mod would see it
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