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While I'd agree, keep in mind this thread asked about only the Abrahamic religions - who I think most atheists would agree are some of the worst religions out there, with their cartoonishly evil gods and immoral world views. They also happen to be the three religions most of us in the US would know the most about. And considering the types of atheist who show up on boards like these (atheists who do take an active interest in learning about religion/debating about it), I think that we all can say we know enough about the three choices to say "no thanks" to all three.
If it had been opened up to more world religions, I feel that many of us would have voted for some religions - namely Buddhism. Or Bokononism.
You are correct and I wasn't framing my last comment in regards to those posting in this thread, it was more of a general statement about people who do judge something negatively without knowing a thing about it. Some people, who dislike the Abrahamic religions, will assume that all other religions are just the same - which of course is not the case. However, not knowing anything about the other faiths, some people will make an assumption and tar them with the same brush. It is that sort of thinking which I think is closed-minded. If someone is to claim a dislike of a religion as a whole, then I do think they should ideally have a general knowledge of it. If a person doesn't, then I think it would be better for them to refrain from making a judgement one way or the other until they have informed themselves.
You are correct and I wasn't framing my last comment in regards to those posting in this thread, it was more of a general statement about people who do judge something negatively without knowing a thing about it. Some people, who dislike the Abrahamic religions, will assume that all other religions are just the same - which of course is not the case. However, not knowing anything about the other faiths, some people will make an assumption and tar them with the same brush. It is that sort of thinking which I think is closed-minded. If someone is to claim a dislike of a religion as a whole, then I do think they should ideally have a general knowledge of it. If a person doesn't, then I think they should refrain from making a judgement one way or the other until they have informed themselves.
Fair enough. But on the other side of the token - after learning about enough religions, wouldn't there certainly be a point where one could say "ok, this is all rubbish" without having to really vet and learn about all the world's religions? That would be a very onerous task.
But yea, if one is generally going to say he actively dislikes all religions, he probably should do the research to say what about them he dislikes. But then again, maybe the reason he dislikes all religions isn't because of what they preach, but because they are all equally as unlikely and equally unprovable.
Fair enough. But on the other side of the token - after learning about enough religions, wouldn't there certainly be a point where one could say "ok, this is all rubbish" without having to really vet and learn about all the world's religions? That would be a very onerous task.
It's tricky, because while I see what you're saying and I understand that many atheists would not be willing to take the time to learn the basics of all faiths, I still feel that to express dislike of a religion in its entirety, one should have a general knowledge of what it's about. I don't mean an in-depth knowledge including all the intricacies, but a general knowledge.
Perhaps a better/fairer statement would be for an atheist to say that they feel they dislike the basic supernatural premise of all religions, but that they are aware that some religions (i.e. the ones the know nothing or little about) may have more positive aspects than others and to refrain from making a solid judgment on those religions in their entirety.
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Originally Posted by Fillmont
But then again, maybe the reason he dislikes all religions isn't because of what they preach, but because they are all equally as unlikely and equally unprovable.
If that's their only reason, then that's fair enough, I suppose. It's my view that all faiths have at least some good in them, and some are better than others of course, but I think a person can find a degree of goodness and positivity in all (even if, in some religions, it is unfortunately shrouded by intolerance and bigotry.)
It's tricky, because while I see what you're saying and I understand that many atheists would not be willing to take the time to learn the basics of all faiths, I still feel that to express dislike of a religion in its entirety, one should have a general knowledge of what it's about. I don't mean an in-depth knowledge including all the intricacies, but a general knowledge.
I pretty much agree with you, because I also have a compulsion to just learn as much as I can. But I can easily see why others would say "I have better things to do," and I won't fault them for that.
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Perhaps a better/fairer statement would be for an atheist to say that they feel they dislike the basic supernatural premise of all religions, but that they are aware that some religions (i.e. the ones the know nothing or little about) may have more positive aspects than others and to refrain from making a solid judgment on those religions in their entirety.
Agreed!
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If that's their only reason, then that's fair enough, I suppose. It's my view that all faiths have at least some good in them, and some are better than others of course, but I think a person can find a degree of goodness and positivity in all (even if, in some religions, it is unfortunately shrouded by intolerance and bigotry.)
While I'd certainly agree that there are aspects of religion that can be good, and there are plenty of good theists out there, I find that on the whole the bad of religion outweighs the good. I find this to be the case because a lot of what is good about religion can be found outside of it as well (the community aspects of it), and I feel that religions, even in their best intended forms, ultimately do a great disservice by shrouding the truth. By claiming to have all the answers, and then saying that all the answers are supernatural, believers will have no reason to really go and explore why things are the way they are. That is an inherent flaw. And then we have the problem that you reference last, that of intolerance and bigotry.
While I'd certainly agree that there are aspects of religion that can be good, and there are plenty of good theists out there, I find that on the whole the bad of religion outweighs the good.
I disagree on that point, but can see why you think that way.
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Originally Posted by Fillmont
By claiming to have all the answers, and then saying that all the answers are supernatural, believers will have no reason to really go and explore why things are the way they are.
But do you really believe that's a hallmark of every faith? A lot, yes, but as far as I know, Wicca, for example, does not claim to have all the answers for everything; I don't think Buddhism does either. (I am currently in the process of learning about Wicca, so I don't know everything about it, though.) I also think that the Buddhist faith encourages people to explore things for themselves and not just take the Buddha's word for it, so in a sense, they are implying to the followers that they don't necessarily know everything and have all the answers. There are probably more that take a similar approach.
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Originally Posted by Fillmont
And then we have the problem that you reference last, that of intolerance and bigotry.
From what I know of Wicca so far, it seems free of intolerance and bigotry. (So does Buddhism, but I know less about that, so I'm going by my current impressions/understanding.)
That's not to say that there aren't any Wiccans that may be intolerant or bigoted about some things, but I don't think they get that from their faith.
But do you really believe that's a hallmark of every faith? A lot, yes, but as far as I know, Wicca, for example, does not claim to have all the answers for everything; I don't think Buddhism does either. (I am currently in the process of learning about Wicca, so I don't know everything about it, though.) I also think that the Buddhist faith encourages people to explore things for themselves and not just take the Buddha's word for it, so in a sense, they are implying to the followers that they don't necessarily know everything and have all the answers. There are probably more that take a similar approach.
You're right, and I probably shouldn't have phrased it as all religions having all the answers. But I do still find that religions, as a whole, are all equally as unlikely, and thus equally as capable of leading into a cabinet, when it comes to trying to find answers. But hey, just one guy here, and I know there are plenty of people who feel that I'm the one who has painted myself into a corner.
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From what I know of Wicca so far, it seems free of intolerance and bigotry. (So does Buddhism, but I know less about that, so I'm going by my current impressions/understanding.)
That's not to say that there aren't any Wiccans that may be intolerant or bigoted about some things, but I don't think they get that from their faith.
I think you're right, and that's why, if those options were given in the poll, most of us atheists would probably choose those as "respectable" religions. I've got no qualms, really, with either group.
Ha-ha, I think very few pagans actually do that (at least these days.) Some may, though.
Been there. Done that. Know a few people who still do.
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Some may, though.
