What if there were evidence (believe, Creator, Jesus, atheist)

[greaemonkey]

Originally Posted by squall-lionheart

If you allow me to ask :
What if Dawkins or lets say modern science proves that God do exist beyond any doubt..how would that affect you ?
I am just curious !!!

I'm pretty sure there was a thread on this a while back, but I'd kind of like to take this one question and run with it. Mostly I'd just like to see if my own viewpoint corresponds with the other atheist/non-theists; a theist neighbor simply couldn't comprehend my answer to this very question a few weeks ago.

My own answer: It really wouldn't effect me at all outside of the fact that absolute proof in a creator would simply turn me into a deist rather than an atheist. No faith would be required since I would now "know."

I think one of the fundamental differences in thought between a theist and an atheist is the whole idea of "worship." There seems to be a "well, when you die and find out you're wrong, you'll be really REALLY sorry!" attitude that really couldn't be much further from the truth for me at least. In the joke thread, somebody posted a video of Bill Maher that summed up something I've said many times over the years ...If God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost appeared on CNN tomorrow, changed the value of pi (or something equally impossible) and declared the bible (or the Koran, or any other "holy" book) to be the complete unadulterated truth:

...I'd become a "believer" but I certainly wouldn't become a "worshiper." Although I find it highly unlikely that science will ever prove a deity (much less any specific one), but if it actually were to do so, the actual change in my own life would be very minimal. I certainly couldn't feel any regret for not believing in something/someone who up until that point had given me absolutely no reason to believe in he/she/it.

There seems to be a pervasive element with many a theist that thinks that when we die and "find out we're wrong" that we'll suddenly become some kind of groveling regretful heap of something or other. As one of the other poster's here so eloquently puts it (actually, I've heard it in a number of places); if there really is a God, and he's really so neurotic as to require adulation and worship from his creations, he'd probably be a lot less hostile to someone who believes in NO gods than the ones who believed in the WRONG god.

The question is why in the world would we regret not believing in something there was no good reason to believe in in the first place? If we were to find the concrete evidence that we are wrong ...it STILL doesn't follow that I would suddenly feel any need to actually worship such a being.

Anyone else care to weigh in on this?

[JollyOgre]

"What if?"

Argument contrary to fact. Illogical argument.

"What if magic was real?" is the same argument.

[greaemonkey]

Originally Posted by JollyOgre

"What if?"

Argument contrary to fact. Illogical argument.

"What if magic was real?" is the same argument.

I fully agree with you, but the point I'm trying to address is the fallacy of thought that many a theist tends to attribute to atheists: how sorry we'll be when/if "we find out we're wrong."

I really don't have any problem with being wrong since I really don't have much of a stake in being "correct" ...a deity that doesn't care enough to provide adequate evidence of his/her/its existence hardly rates my attention. If a Christian dies and finds out he's wrong, will he grovel in regret for following the wrong path, would a Muslim?! Most "true believers" in any religion can't even fathom the notion they might be wrong.

Personally, I think it best to withhold belief until I have a reason not to; but even then the whole idea of "worship" just seems silly.

[Aganusn]

If I was asian, then I would be asian. If there was evidence, everything we know could be different.

[LargeKingCat]

what if? Well there is not. SO what then ?

[Rafius]

I'd become a believer of course....who wouldn't?? That's the difference between atheists and theists. Show atheists proof that gods exist and I'd wager they would all become theists. Show theists proof that gods do not exist and they still wouldn't believe it....no way, not now not ever.

[greaemonkey]

Wow, did I really do that poor of a job trying to make my point, or are people simply not reading? I'm not addressing the hypothetical itself as much as the lack of logic behind the assumptions some people appear to be making by foisting the hypothetical on us in the first place.

[greaemonkey]

Originally Posted by Rafius

I'd become a believer of course....who wouldn't?? That's the difference between atheists and theists. Show atheists proof that gods exist and I'd wager they would all become theists. Show theists proof that gods do not exist and they still wouldn't believe it....no way, not now not ever.

Finally ...someone who "gets" my point! My only contention is that if Biblegod or Korangod were proven, that belief wouldn't equate to WORSHIP (at least in my case).

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by greaemonkey

Anyone else care to weigh in on this?

Not really. I do not tend to weigh in on posts on science threads from people who can barely string an English sentence together and who have been shown on numerous occasions to outright make false science up to support their lies.... as the user you are replying to did on numerous occasions such as when he declared there were no other planets with oxygen ever found (there have) And that moving the earth mere centimetres closer to or further from the sun would cause it to burn up or freeze respectively (the sun in the course of a year actually moves closer and further from the sun in the order of many MANY miles).

So no, not that interested in engaging with the kind of person who comes into science threads and quite literally bare face lies and makes up false science to trick people into thinking there is a god.

[greaemonkey]

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

So no, not that interested in engaging with the kind of person who comes into science threads and quite literally bare face lies and makes up false science to trick people into thinking there is a god.

Fair enough. ...but since it was exactly "that type" that made me begin questioning my faith in the first place, I certainly think they have their uses. When the lies become so utterly transparent, they really do a better job convincing somebody who is on the fence than anything we "evil atheists" might have to say. When a person needs to lie to support their position, somebody standing on the outside has little reason to believe anything they say after the lie is exposed (and gives greater cause to question other things they've been taught as well).