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Old 12-17-2012, 01:44 AM
 
3,636 posts, read 3,351,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Probably jealous
If were jealous of my living with two women in a three way relationship then that would be the sin of coveting which I am sure is against his particular brand of religion. I am more inclined to believe he is just a religious fundamentalist who - like most religious fundies - feels he is justified in judging others by his own standards and declaring me to be in sin and hell bound.

He quite likely feels he is on a righteous mission to "save" us and sees himself as not only justified but laudible in that pursuit.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
37 posts, read 91,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicstargoat View Post
Another good tactic is to politely ask the intruders their name and address. When they ask "Why?", tell them that you want to come over and talk to their children about Wicca, or Satanism, or Islam, or WHATEVER. They will never be back.
lol I never thought of that.

We don't get any solicitors ... if I do in the future though I may say something to that effect
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Temporarily, in Limerick
2,898 posts, read 6,211,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Forced how, held a gun to their heads? What you're describing is proselytizing on an absolutely microcosmic sense and does not compare to Christian (including mainline Protestant) ideals
Threatening another if they don't do something is forcing. Perhaps microcosmic, as you say, unless it directly affects you, then it can be life changing & monumental.

Quote:
Judaism also doesn't believe in a heaven in the conventional sense, and unlike Christianity, one not need to be a Jew to experience salvation.
Yes, I do know the former & expressed it in my statement. Never heard the latter.

Quote:
A middle-of-the-road Jewish school like Solomon Shechter accepts people of all kinds, though it's rare for them to enroll. I did know of a Greek Orthodox kid who went to Jewish primary school and had no issues.
I do know of non-Catholics who've gone to Parochial schools. They didn't convert. Their parents simply wanted them to have a better education.

Quote:
Again, Judaism is not about "saving" others. All you need to do is follow the seven Noahide laws.
Thank you. I'm reading a bit about that now... very interesting. Although, can you help with this... I've known Jewish men who said they were part of the chosen people & although others could convert, many in the community would not consider them Jewish as they were not 'born of Jewish blood'. Are they radical in their beliefs?

Quote:
And why do you think there are Catholics, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc. in places like India, Southeast Asia, and Subsaharan Africa? Those are the legacies of missions that mixed humanitarian initiatives with preaching of the gospel. They may not go door to door in the US, but there's more than one form of proselytizing. So yes, Catholics and Protestants (except perhaps Unitarian Universalists) definitely proselytize. Buddhists not so much.
I see, yes, very going points, HW. I wasn't considering the global aspects, since the post focused on bothering individuals in their homes.

However, aren't there radicals of every faith? Sun Myung Moon's Buddhist sect were certainly prosthelytizing. On a smaller scale, wouldn't any sect which pulls in families to live communally be prosthelytizers? And, I suppose another issue & not in line with the OP... isn't the whole concept, whether smaller or global not truly saving lives as much as amassing wealth for individuals or their churches/temples?

Good points, thanks HW.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:43 PM
Status: "And now for something completely different." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,201 posts, read 12,575,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatanjaliTwist View Post
Threatening another if they don't do something is forcing. Perhaps microcosmic, as you say, unless it directly affects you, then it can be life changing & monumental.
People have all kinds of demands and preconditions before getting married. I'm not saying I agree with the idea of giving your fiancée that kind of ultimatum, but it's nothing all that radical. I know plenty of Catholics, Muslims, etc. who would only marry "one of their own." The one big difference, as I said before, is that Judaism focuses on matrilineal ascent, so it's important among more religious Jews for the children to be born to a Jewish mother so they can be considered full members of the religious community (and not have to go through the hassles of conversion later). It's an interesting concept that can have somewhat absurd consequences. Someone who's 7/8 ethnoreligously Jewish would be considered a Gentile if their maternal-maternal great-grandmother were a gentile. By contrast, someone with only a maternal-maternal Jewish great-grandmother would be considered Jewish as well.

Quote:
Thank you. I'm reading a bit about that now... very interesting. Although, can you help with this... I've known Jewish men who said they were part of the chosen people & although others could convert, many in the community would not consider them Jewish as they were not 'born of Jewish blood'. Are they radical in their beliefs?
The only group of Jewish men "forbidden" from marrying converts are Kohenim, descendants of Aaron who formed a priestly upper class. Considering someone only Jewish if they were born a Jew is not all that radical, but the official positions of most Jewish sects frown on such am attitude. It's becoming less prevalent as intermarriage becomes more common though.

Quote:
However, aren't there radicals of every faith? Sun Myung Moon's Buddhist sect were certainly prosthelytizing. On a smaller scale, wouldn't any sect which pulls in families to live communally be prosthelytizers? And, I suppose another issue & not in line with the OP... isn't the whole concept, whether smaller or global not truly saving lives as much as amassing wealth for individuals or their churches/temples?
I believe there were actually some "Charismatic" Jewish sects in the days of Judea, but (1) their actions were contrary to religious command, and (2) they died out after the destruction of the First Temple. Not proselytizing was probably Judaism's "fatal error."

Preconditioning marriage to a Gentile on his/her conversion isn't really proselytizing, because Jews aren't encouraged to marry Gentiles so they can become part of the Jewish fold. If that were the case, your Proselytization comparisons would be more cogent.

As far as global missionary work goes, I think it can, and does, do some good. Individual participants seem well-intentioned for the most part and focus more on the humanitarian aspects, even if the end goal is to attract more followers. I don't know how much a Ugandan village can bolster the wealth of the Pope's coffers, but I would suppose the relatively recent Catholicization of the Philippines was both massive enough, and in a wealthy enough country, to make an impact on church finances.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Temporarily, in Limerick
2,898 posts, read 6,211,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
People have all kinds of demands and preconditions before getting married. I'm not saying I agree with the idea of giving your fiancée that kind of ultimatum, but it's nothing all that radical. I know plenty of Catholics, Muslims, etc. who would only marry "one of their own."
Interesting info throughout, HW, thank you.

Perhaps it depends upon one's definition of the word radical. I've met people of all religions who've felt theirs was the only right path & a partner would need to convert, even if just from 1 protestant sect to another. Perhaps not uncommon, although I've not personally experienced it to be an issue with most people I've known, but, I find that forcefulness radical, controlling & dishonoring another's belief system.

Quote:
The only group of Jewish men "forbidden" from marrying converts are Kohenim, descendants of Aaron who formed a priestly upper class. Considering someone only Jewish if they were born a Jew is not all that radical, but the official positions of most Jewish sects frown on such am attitude. It's becoming less prevalent as intermarriage becomes more common though.
The men I referenced said they were of David's bloodline & that only 'true Jews' were such. Interesting then, these were the men who demanded their girlfriends convert prior to marriage. Why would it matter if they could never be considered a 'true Jew'? Their children would retain part of David's bloodline, in their belief... perhaps enough? I'm still a bit lost on why the mother would need to convert, but then there is little I truly understand in anyone's religion.

Quote:
I don't know how much a Ugandan village can bolster the wealth of the Pope's coffers, but I would suppose the relatively recent Catholicization of the Philippines was both massive enough, and in a wealthy enough country, to make an impact on church finances.
I wouldn't think the pennies of Ugandans would make it to the Pope, but instead into the hands of the local missionaries. In a country where people make the equivalent of something akin to $100 US/yr, gathering a % of the congregations' wages could provide a nice life for those who pass their hats.

It's a messy business.

Getting back to the OPs post, I'm certainly on the side of those who wish to be left alone in their own homes & do wish some would try the 'No Soliciting' signs. It's always worked for me. After the sign, no one ever rang my bell, which I rather enjoyed.

Thanks for your insights, HW. Very interesting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:22 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,330,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatanjaliTwist View Post
Firstly, I said 'in my experience' I've never known Catholics to be arm-wrangling in their desire to convert. Protestants (all 300 varies of them) are of a different sect & I can't speak for all. Secondly, a mission doesn't necessarily mean wishing to convert. For goodness sake, Parochial schools accept children of all faiths. How about Jewish schools? I don't know, I'm asking. Several sects of varying religions only believe in saving a soul if it's borne unto such religion, hence Jews feeling they're the chosen people. I'm guessing (I don't know for sure) that those knocking door to door wising to convert, also feel chosen? I wouldn't consider Catholics, some protestant sects or Buddhists to be such... would you?
When my dh was in college, it was the Catholics who came around to doors since the town was mostly Seventh Day Baptist (a sect that believed everything Baptists believe, but had the Sabbath on Saturday instead of Sunday). He was living at a Preacher's farm and answered the door to find them saying *Come back to the faith of your ancestors* to which he answered, *pagans? My ancestors are Jewish and have never been Catholic.* Needless to say, they did not return at least that summer.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:27 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,330,909 times
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As for Jews, OP, they do not go out of their way to convert *strangers,* but they do wish that their intended wives convert since in Judaism, the bloodline is matriarchal, not patriarch. I have no idea what the Jews you met were talking about, but a child is considered Jewish ONLY if his or her mother is Jewish. OTOH, many Jewish men and women want to marry other Jews because they feel a responsibility to keep the religion and race from dying out. I know Jewish families who are becoming stricter in their adherence to the religion nowadays.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:02 PM
 
3,756 posts, read 9,370,864 times
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I checked this out recently because it was an issue, more so because you did not know if certain people were casing houses or just wanting to pass out religious information. The Courts ruled, it is freedom of speech and that they do not need a permit because they are not selling anything.

I found that not answering the door is the easiest way to handle this.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,841 posts, read 1,771,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDIAMOND64 View Post
I checked this out recently because it was an issue, more so because you did not know if certain people were casing houses or just wanting to pass out religious information. The Courts ruled, it is freedom of speech and that they do not need a permit because they are not selling anything.

I found that not answering the door is the easiest way to handle this.

what about the rights of people to not be bothered by unwanted religious nonsense? they can create websites preaching about their religion door to door is not needed in the age of the internet
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,331 posts, read 5,873,581 times
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I have two Mormon "missionaries" I am pretty close to going full out native on if they don't stop coming by. Unfortunately my college-age daughter invited them in one day when we weren't home. Since then, they keep coming by despite her telling them she wasn't interested. She has gotten to the point that she hides in her room whenever the door bell rings.

The last time they came by (about a week ago), my teenage son answered the door. I was upstairs and walked over to the loft to see what was going on and there they were in my house. I simply stood in the loft, hair down with my Comanche war scowl on making in it clear that they were not welcome. They quickly left without a word spoken. Should they come yet again, it will be time to have a little talk with them.

Last edited by Fullback32; 12-20-2012 at 04:54 PM..
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