An atheists's view of faith (believe, mission, moral, hell)

[Texan2008]

I've asked myself "What advancements to society has faith given us" and still cannot come up with a good answer except that it seemingly provides a type of psychological security blanket for some amonst other things. In the end though I have to conclude that faith does not give us much in the way of true advancement of civilization. Great discoveries about morality, inventions,medicine and other fields do not come about because someone has faith in the supernatural. They come about because people are willing to put in the hard work to think about these fields and apply reason, evidence, and building upon past discoveries...not using faith. Agree or disagree.

[agnostic soldier]

Agree.

[TRANSPONDER]

A case can certainly be made for people being inspired by their faith to do things we approve of, although one suspects that sheer preponderance of people who had faith back then would guarantee that you had to look damn' hard to find anyone doing anything good (or bad) who would declare that they didn't have faith.

That also overlooks the appalling events and conditions of those earlier societies notwithstanding the much greater faith they had. One could be forgiven for supposing that was something to do with it, but I don't go that far.

I rather ascribe the progress we have made - and I think that there has been though it may not seem like it at times - is more to do with education than with a coincidental decline in faith. Faith itself is making progress and it is becoming nicer.

This is because it also is becoming educated, not because it was always that way and the hellfire and brimstone types were always wrong, but because an educated populace is obliging the organizations of Faith to grudgingly get on board or be left behind.

What I do consider pretty reliable is that, even if faith had some benefits for society, they are not so overwhelmingly beneficial (forget necessary for the avoidance of social collapse) that the evidence -based truth - that religious Faith is unjustifiable and invalid - is not a preferable mindset.

[Grandstander]

A commonality of faith can be a unifying force, but their collective cause could be anything, good or bad. The mid 19th Century South rallied around their faith in the idea of the inferiority of black Africans which was then fused with their religious faith that it was this way because god had ordained it to be that way.

As possible virtues, faith and loyalty are somewhat interchangeable...I'm going to believe this no matter what, I'm going to stand by this person or idea, no matter what. But their virtue actually depends upon the nature of the "what." Clinging to a falsehood is not a virtue, standing by someone who is in the wrong or is doing harm to others is not a virtue. It is dividing life into the home team and the visitors and determining right and wrong not on the basis of fairness or practicality, but rather on the color of your jersey.

[TroutDude]

Faith eases loneliness and pain in a way that companionship and medication cannot.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

Faith eases loneliness and pain in a way that companionship and medication cannot.

It is simply kicking the can down the road. Some people manage to kick it all the way to their death bed and die peacefully secure in their faux comfort -- but god help (ha) the ones who don't make it all the way.

[chielgirl]

Maybe they just needed a faith-lift.

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

Faith eases loneliness and pain in a way that companionship and medication cannot.

If we accept the above, then must the faith be religious in character? Someone on their deathbed might be greatly comforted by the hope provided in the promise of some miracle cure by a quack doctor or bogus clinic.

And your above conclusion actually depends upon circumstances, does it not? If the problem is that a child is dying from some otherwise curable disease, but the parents' faith is such that they refuse to grant permission for medical procedures in favor of a reliance on the favors of a deity, then faith has made things worse, not better, and medication would have made it better.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

Maybe they just needed a faith-lift.

*groan* :-)

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

If we accept the above, then must the faith be religious in character? Someone on their deathbed might be greatly comforted by the hope provided in the promise of some miracle cure by a quack doctor or bogus clinic.

And your above conclusion actually depends upon circumstances, does it not? If the problem is that a child is dying from some otherwise curable disease, but the parents' faith is such that they refuse to grant permission for medical procedures in favor of a reliance on the favors of a deity, then faith has made things worse, not better, and medication would have made it better.

My statement was not to be taken as an absolute, in every situation.

And I am not at all religious.

How about: Faith can ease loneliness and emotional pain in a way that companionship and medication cannot.

More palatable?