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As to the question of purpose, I think sometimes we search for something really soaring, majestic and transcendent, when in fact real rubber-meets-the-road purpose and meaning is rather mundane. For me, purpose is interacting here, writing software I'm proud of, being a good listening ear to my wife, giving my favorite dog a nice belly rub, even paying my bills on time. I am in truth just a simple guy living an ordinary life, and my purpose and meaning must be found within that scope. The inflation of religion -- that you are immortal, that god cares what you eat for breakfast, that you are in some sense the star of your very own stage play -- is what makes meaning hard to find.
Absolutely agree. Ultimately, individual meaning is a direct consequence of subjective perception and thinking. Cognitively this is even true in terms of religion: For someone who perceives that he or she is doing 'god's' work, in their own mind they really are.
Most of us secularists have to find meaning in the pleasantries of every day life, which, in most cases is more mundane. Realists tend be emotionally moderate because life is seldom as sublime or awful as exuberant or depressed people perceive it to be.
If I had it MY way, I would do D (avoid both). I don't believe in it, and sitting in their presence watching it would move such a small, tiny, non-existent part of me, that I just wouldn't want to be there. Regardless, I'm married to a Protestant, and his family, friends, and even my brother, are all a range of Christians. I don't have much say, when it comes to all the religious stuff they do. When they pray, I sit there, holding their hands, staring at the table; when they drag me to church, i sit there, bored, waiting for it to end. Granted, I have a hearing impairment and sitting in a church or any social gathering is a great way to get me bored, lost, and aggravated. They don't happen to often, however, and they finally learned to stop asking me to go.
It's funny, many of us WOULD go to these events to support our religious families and friends, but how many of them would support us and avoid such religious events? For instance, when I die, I will not want a religious service, but I'm confident that unless I write up a last testament or whatever, someone will be throwing me a religious funeral anyway.
Tedious..boring. Yes. I remember sitting there in my childhood years studying the architecture and admiring the effect of light through the stained glass, while the guy in the nightshirt mumped on and on..
It was a relief when at 15 I decided that the vows and obligations laid on me had been imposed and had no force, and I walked out and never went back, except to oblige a friend or relative, or for a music performance or an organ recital or just to have a look at the architecture.
I have the idea now that, it has to be tedious and boring so that one comes out having the feeling of having done penance. Of course the happy - clappy services are different altogether. It is about having fun, not doing a worthy chore.
For instance, when I die, I will not want a religious service, but I'm confident that unless I write up a last testament or whatever, someone will be throwing me a religious funeral anyway.
Why worry about that? You won't know, and nothing that they do is going to be capable of either pleasing or offending you. Death is death, but funeral ceremonies are for the living. Let them have their way, it will no longer really be a concern of yours by that point.
Why worry about that? You won't know, and nothing that they do is going to be capable of either pleasing or offending you. Death is death, but funeral ceremonies are for the living. Let them have their way, it will no longer really be a concern of yours by that point.
Because the funeral, is essentially the last event that will exist in my honor. It's funny though; when we're born, it's not some crazy religious event, and nor do we have religious events on our birthdays, but when we die, it more less becomes a religious event. While I agree, I obviously won't be there to care when I'm dead and if they want some prayer and crap there, neat, but and obviously, if they're religious, they're going to use religion to attempt dealing with my death anyway. But still, it'd be nice if for the last event in my honor, they remember me for ME.
Honestly, when people just say, let them do what they want b/c you'll be dead anyway... that's kind of silly. No one would do that to a known Jew and give them a Christian funeral, and same with most religious people. So it makes no sense to ignore those of us that aren't religious and to give us a religious funeral.
Honestly, when people just say, let them do what they want b/c you'll be dead anyway... that's kind of silly. No one would do that to a known Jew and give them a Christian funeral, and same with most religious people. So it makes no sense to ignore those of us that aren't religious and to give us a religious funeral.
What I think is silly is investing even one second of time concerning yourself with matters which will take place after it is no longer possible for you to be aware or care about them.
My family members have asked me what my post corporal preferences are and I have told them that I have none at all, they should feel free to do whatever they wish, but don't tell me of any plans in advance. If they want to do it in the cheapest possible manner, or they want to send me off like Don Corleone, I'll never know. If they turned it into some religious ceremony which flies in the face of my beliefs, I won't be bothered because I'll be a bit too dead to care. At that point nothing will please me, nothing will offend me.
What I think is silly is investing even one second of time concerning yourself with matters which will take place after it is no longer possible for you to be aware or care about them.
My family members have asked me what my post corporal preferences are and I have told them that I have none at all, they should feel free to do whatever they wish, but don't tell me of any plans in advance. If they want to do it in the cheapest possible manner, or they want to send me off like Don Corleone, I'll never know. If they turned it into some religious ceremony which flies in the face of my beliefs, I won't be bothered because I'll be a bit too dead to care. At that point nothing will please me, nothing will offend me.
I'm an atheist, but I still have hopes for what happens beyond my death. I hope that I've helped leave the world a better place, for one thing. I also hope that my relationships with the people in my life are genuine and based on mutual respect - if a loved one did not respect my wishes after I passed, it would indicate that there was some falseness or deception there. No, after I'm dead I won't care, but the living me hopes that those wishes will be respected because the living me has a certain view of my personal relationships.
That said, I was irritated on my deceased grandmother's behalf when I read about the Mormon practice of baptizing people of other faiths in the Mormon religion. Given that my grandmother's faith was such a big part of her life and that she took such refuge in it as her health worsened, I find the Mormon practice disrespectful simply because it would have distressed my grandmother in life if she knew about it. Hell, they can go ahead and post-mortem baptize me - I don't care and I don't buy into their fairytales. But I do find it to be a rather presumptuous act.
It's like when my best friend was dying and a family friend did a "healing" while my friend was comatose in the hospital. Her mother was very upset by it, and I don't blame her. Now I'm reasonably certain that my friend wasn't aware of it, but she was firmly rooted in the sciences and did not believe in things like Reiki or auras or whatever. What did it matter? My friend was out of it and unlikely to emerge from her coma, but it was still a presumptuous act, even if it was done with the best of intentions. For the living who knew her wishes, it was upsetting.
I did set up a poll, no idea what happened to it :-(
These were the choices:
(a) I would go to both the christening and to the party afterward.
(b) I would attend the christening but not the party afterward, because I don't think it is something that should be "celebrated".
(c) I would skip the christening but I would go to the party afterward for social reasons.
(d) I wouldn't go to either the christening OR the party.
(my choice would be d)
a) Both.
I'd go to a christening same way as I'd attend a confirmation, or a Jewish or Hindu wedding, or any religious celebration or festival I was invited to.
The reason: because if I know someone well enough to be friends with them, then I'd be honoured to have been invited. I might not join in with mouthing words related to god, but that wouldn't stop me attending. It doesn't matter what I believe, those people believe it and it is important to them, so I'd support them in that.
Plus who wants to miss a party?
a) Both. I'd go to a christening same way as I'd attend a confirmation, or a Jewish or Hindu wedding, or any religious celebration or festival I was invited to.
The reason: because if I know someone well enough to be friends with them, then I'd be honoured to have been invited. I might not join in with mouthing words related to god, but that wouldn't stop me attending. It doesn't matter what I believe, those people believe it and it is important to them, so I'd support them in that.
Plus who wants to miss a party?
Amen. Now that is a truly CHRISTian attitude, Cruithne! A christening is just a naming ceremony after all (with or without baptism) . . . even though it is clearly intended to be a religious ceremony in the poll. People can make life far more complicated and rife with potential conflict over such trivial issues.
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Tedious..boring. Yes. I remember sitting there in my childhood years studying the architecture and admiring the effect of light through the stained glass, while the guy in the nightshirt mumped on and on..
A christening is just a naming ceremony after all (with or without baptism) . . . even though it is clearly intended to be a religious ceremony in the poll.
People can make life far more complicated and rife with potential conflict over such trivial issues.
