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As Diogenes, it is to be happy, which means my family must be happy, my community, etc.
That happiness is fragile, it can vanish. Covid, enough said. Job loss, death, destruction. Personal happiness is relative and dependent on other people, family, community, nation, world. What happens then to Diogenes and his genes when happiness is lost?
Yes I get that.
If we are taking 'meaning' to mean having a life that is purposeful or of value.
But what I'm saying is, if you asked your typical non-atheist what gives their life meaning, I imagine they'd say the same kind of things an atheist would say: Love, having a sense of achievement, travel, art, a family, movies etc. So I'm asking what's the difference between an atheist and a theist in that sense?
I mean if the only thing giving your life meaning is that you might die soon and go to heaven, I think that's a bit sad. Live this life, not the one that comes after it (or not as the case may be).
this is really it.
atheist and theist get along just fine. Some of us don't, but I don't think they are regular ones most times.
so how do we tell? I am engineer so I say measure it, build it, and see if it works under the design parameters. . With this topic, measuring is a little trickery. We can't get a clear answer but we can get a look into it. like stating the glass is half full or half empty. well, its not 1/4 and its not 3/4 kind kind of thing.
I use "something more, not more deities" and the biosphere as life as my meter stick. Its NOT what people say in terms of yes and no. Its about how they answer the question that is key.
for it: its cleary that we are in a living system and the whole universe is alive with the sounds of god.
that's kind of is a clue ....errr ... yeah, sure. we need some some laws to stop that.
against it: woo, sort-a-god, you're a wanna be theist, theist can use it and make atheism harder to sell, its the worst thing ever for atheism. Thats fine but get out of our way.
guess what, thats a clue too. we need other laws.
notice ... all yeses and all the no's can form up under yes and no "flags". and if the flag is what we are forming up under thats when we have trouble living next to each other.
Yes I get that.
If we are taking 'meaning' to mean having a life that is purposeful or of value.
But what I'm saying is, if you asked your typical non-atheist what gives their life meaning, I imagine they'd say the same kind of things an atheist would say: Love, having a sense of achievement, travel, art, a family, movies etc. So I'm asking what's the difference between an atheist and a theist in that sense?
I mean if the only thing giving your life meaning is that you might die soon and go to heaven, I think that's a bit sad. Live this life, not the one that comes after it (or not as the case may be).
Per Advaita or non-dualism there is another way to look at life. Purpose of life is to realize your true essence, that it is of the same essence as the universal consciousness, and to attain absolute bliss, peace, oneness. True Reality lies beyond what is perceived as life and this world which is transient, illusionary, and has no real existence. It is relative, not absolute.
I'm not going to be cross-examined by you.
I would never ask you such personal questions.
But I will say this, any of those questions that you asked, either way, is just a tiny part of who I am as a person.
Whether my grandmother did those things or not:
Proselytizing is wrong unless it's invited.
Sticking your nose into other people's business where it's not invited is wrong.
And both of those things are what you're doing right here.
Here's what YOU need to do tonight: You need to think about why you have the right to always expect non-believers to be the ones who change.
Maybe the christian needs to change. Maybe YOU need to change.
Another good post for you to put in your secret files.
My Father died when I was young. My Grandfather died after more than 20 years of mental pain that originated from the time his immediate family were murdered by Nazis, something we learnt about after his breakdown.
I know how fragile life can be. This does not effect the fact that life can also be good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Covid, enough said. Job loss, death, destruction. Personal happiness is relative and dependent on other people, family, community, nation, world.
I work to make sure that happiness is not lost, by looking after my family and community. My happiness is not just an emotion, it is what I do to make me emotionally happy. Like a seed in the ground, it should give something back in later life.
And knowing life is transitory makes me enjoy what life I have even more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
What happens then to Diogenes and his genes when happiness is lost?
What happens then to Diogenes and his genes should happiness be lost? I have two daughters. My genes will probably go on.
Why do you think there has to be some "meaning" to life, other than being happy you have a chance to live? All people find purpose in things like family, work, intellectual development, charity work, etc., whether atheists or devoutly religious people. Given that religious activity is social activity, there's nothing about human psychology that means religion is essential or even important. It's not like anyone goes to church to see something supernatural occurring!
I guess there is some comfort in believing in life after death, but that benefit doesn't change the fact that religion PROMOTES PASSIVITY and waiting for "God" to make things better. I spent far too many years thinking that God either enjoyed my suffering and so I should try to maximize it (Roman Catholic school), or that HE would fix some very major problems my family was facing. By the time I was 16 I realized that my quality of life depends ENTIRELY on what I do, and that all the endless hours spent praying had exactly the same effect as if I had just stared at a wall.
Exactly.
I've known very religious people who never seemed to get a grasp on life. Whether you are religious or not, the problem is exactly the same - how do you find satisfaction and even joy in life? How do you build a community of family and friends that will stand by you as you stand by them?
Just intoning the name of (a) god won't do it. You have to invest your time and energy into making it happen.
That happiness is fragile, it can vanish. Covid, enough said. Job loss, death, destruction. Personal happiness is relative and dependent on other people, family, community, nation, world. What happens then to Diogenes and his genes when happiness is lost?
I don't think happiness is fragile at all.
One of the great Hindu/Buddhist truths is that joy is always available to us, even in the depths. If your happiness is tied to external events, it will always be fleeting, because things always change.
Per Advaita or non-dualism there is another way to look at life. Purpose of life is to realize your true essence, that it is of the same essence as the universal consciousness, and to attain absolute bliss, peace, oneness. True Reality lies beyond what is perceived as life and this world which is transient, illusionary, and has no real existence. It is relative, not absolute.
Whatever ones believes about god (my god or anti god) that statement is true. We are, at the very least, the universe having a human experience.
I don't call it god and I am not sure that we can go as big as "universal awareness". But the base statement is true enough.
I haven't heard of one convincing argument that we shouldn't say this or keep it obscured.
Meaning also comes from courageously facing life the way it really is, rather than adopting comforting fairytales.
Russell, Understanding History, p. 40:
Quote:
No, the greatest men have not been "serene." They have had, it is true, an ultimate courage, a power of creating beauty where nature has put only horror, which may, to a petty mind, appear like serenity. But their courage has had to surpass that of common men, because they have seen deeper into the indifference of nature and the cruelty of man. To cover up these things with comfortable lies is the business of cowards; the business of great men is to see them with inflexible clarity, and yet to think and feel nobly. And in the degree in which we can all be great, this is the business of each one of us.
One of the great Hindu/Buddhist truths is that joy is always available to us, even in the depths. If your happiness is tied to external events, it will always be fleeting, because things always change.
Even some Christians know this.
I dont see any disagreement with post. Happiness is fragile, conditional, fleeting. All same.
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