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"We don't "need" a religion to keep us on the straight and narrow, we have moral compasses for that."
Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer with the publication of their book, “A Natural History of Rape,” which posits that rape is an evolutionary adaptation—enabling men to increase their reproductive capabilities by gaining access to women they otherwise couldn’t attract.
So why wouldn't that be bad to those like you? By your standards, this whole universe came about by mere chances that were unguided that eventually led to you. There is NO science to back that up yet you still believe it to be true. Now you're going to tell me we don't need a higher authority for morals? By what authority do you speak since you don't care that you have NO science to back up your position? From the start, how did the universe come about naturally?
"Punishment after death? Ridiculous."
I agree with you there. There is no punishment after death. People are dead after death, that is even biblical. What's also biblical that there will be a time when unbelievers who didn't accept God's gift of salvation, they will be raised from the dead to face their judgment where they will be shamed for what they did and then will be thrown into the lake of fire for their second and final death.
Well first of all, I'm sure that we're all happy that you admit that religion does sometimes cause war. I'm certain that no one died or suffered needlessly in those 123 wars caused by religion.
Second, I'm sure we're all satisfied that you're using sources for your research that are neutral. You know...like a website that exists to make people be "A STRONGER AMBASSADOR FOR CHRIST". Couldn't be more neutral than that!
As to your mere speculation about rising from the dead...give us the proof that is more substantial than the scientific answers for how life and the universe began and evolved. Don't you dare say the bible because billions of people have not and not believe in the bible.
I'm somewhat of a hypocrite who 'doesn't have a home.' I was raised a strict Catholic but got out of it in high school as my family and relatives still remain strict Catholic through the MANY years since I left. No complaints really since I have a great family and relatives, it was just the man-made traditions they follow that got me out of it. Years later I tried a variety of 'religions' and eventually saw their flaws and got out of those too. Easy thing to say but not to do since I made some very close friends in them.
My point is, I can really see the discontent with religions and religious people. We all have our sides that rub people the wrong way but that's not the reason I'm speaking of. The reason is because if people accept beliefs and want to share with others why it benefits them too, they should at least have evidence as to why it would benefit others.
If the evidence showed that it is wise to accept the atheistic side, I would have done it, but I can't find such evidence. Then on the flip side, I'm embarrassed to call myself a Christian because I have debated many, including some members of my family, that I just want to call myself a 'believer.' I vowed about 50 years ago that I will only accept things I have reasonable evidence for. That forced me to make a lot of changes to my beliefs that I sure didn't want to make.
About who is really in control, it's the atheistic side. And when I say atheistic side, that's also a side many religions, including the 'Christian' churches have adopted. I'm all for live and let live. I'm all for believe what you want to believe. I'm NOT for pushing those beliefs on others though and that IS what is done to me. I am forced to pay my property taxes so that public schools can teach the naturalist/materialistic beliefs on children I don't even have in school. I believe with evidence, such teachings are based on science fiction and yet I still need to support it by FORCE.
I'm for leaving both religious and materialistic teachings out of public schools, but why should just one be taught when it's not even based on science? It is a belief system (a religion) that has no evidence to back it up.
Note: For the record, I'm not for any public schools. Let people pay for their own children's education.
"That is a crux of the problem, if not THE crux. The other related thing that has to be considered is their notion of what truth is, and how one determines it. Their moral thinking is just a reflection of their epistemology, which is essentially, divine command theory."
I can also put that in....That is a crux of the problem, if not THE crux. The other related thing that has to be considered is their notion of what truth is, and how one determines it. Their moral thinking is just a reflection of their materialism, which is essentially, a science fiction command theory.
As an American, shame on you. "$12,350 is the average annual tuition among the nation's 22,440 private K-12 schools". There are millions of Americans who would not be able to send their children to a private school. But, I guess there are many religious people who would like to dumb down America for religious purposes.
"We don't "need" a religion to keep us on the straight and narrow, we have moral compasses for that."
Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer with the publication of their book, “A Natural History of Rape,” which posits that rape is an evolutionary adaptation—enabling men to increase their reproductive capabilities by gaining access to women they otherwise couldn’t attract.
So why wouldn't that be bad to those like you?
Because we evolved to live in groups, and not raping is also an evolutionary adaptation. Raping group members is bad for the group, and as our morality developed (as can be seen through history, so is clearly man made), we have thankfully developed the idea that any rape is bad. Unfortunately too many people still need to learn this lesson, but we do not need a god (especially one that promotes rape) to explain this.
That some people rape, therefore our morality must come from a god is not a very good argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnysig
By your standards, this whole universe came about by mere chances that were unguided that eventually led to you. There is NO science to back that up yet you still believe it to be true.
We have over 2000 years of science that always says it was not a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnysig
Now you're going to tell me we don't need a higher authority for morals? By what authority do you speak since you don't care that you have NO science to back up your position?
Apart from biology, anthropology, psychology, we also have philosophy dating back to before Aristotle explaining why we have morality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnysig
From the start, how did the universe come about naturally?
Either there was absolutely nothing, including rules saying how absolutely nothing should behave, or there was an eternal something. No god is required for either position, and Godidit would raise more questions than it answers.
There are different theories about how our universe came about, none of them require a god, and all of them are simpler than the idea that a brainless, immaterial intelligence who for some unexplained reason just happens to know every thing, including complex science just somehow spoke everything into existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnysig
"Punishment after death? Ridiculous."
I agree with you there. There is no punishment after death. People are dead after death, that is even biblical. What's also biblical that there will be a time when unbelievers who didn't accept God's gift of salvation, they will be raised from the dead to face their judgment where they will be shamed for what they did and then will be thrown into the lake of fire for their second and final death.
"We don't "need" a religion to keep us on the straight and narrow, we have moral compasses for that."
Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer with the publication of their book, “A Natural History of Rape,” which posits that rape is an evolutionary adaptation—enabling men to increase their reproductive capabilities by gaining access to women they otherwise couldn’t attract.
So why wouldn't that be bad to those like you? By your standards, this whole universe came about by mere chances that were unguided that eventually led to you. There is NO science to back that up yet you still believe it to be true. Now you're going to tell me we don't need a higher authority for morals? By what authority do you speak since you don't care that you have NO science to back up your position? From the start, how did the universe come about naturally?
"Punishment after death? Ridiculous."
I agree with you there. There is no punishment after death. People are dead after death, that is even biblical. What's also biblical that there will be a time when unbelievers who didn't accept God's gift of salvation, they will be raised from the dead to face their judgment where they will be shamed for what they did and then will be thrown into the lake of fire for their second and final death.
I swear this has got to be the most whacked out post I can't believe you're actually for real. What? "Those like me"? Rape is ok with me and those like me? Yeah it's all sin and debauchery with us heathens, because we don't buy into the biggest hoax of all time? And just because I am an atheist, I also believe a "theory" to be evidence? Mm this confusion and assumptions are all things that you have been taught. Investigate for yourself.
Go to the "Ask An Atheist" thread and learn something new. Like, we're not evil! We're not without values and morals and it's ridiculous to say otherwise. Plenty of so-called Christians who commit unthinkable, heinous, evil things and most of the time they are committed under the guise of religion. Atheists are in the minority and we're not looking to take over the world with our special voodoo atheist magic. All I am doing is like I stated in the thread mentioned above.
Oh I used to be just like you, thinking the Rapture was really going to happen and all the degenerates, sinners and atheists (because atheists are in an evil category of their own) and sinners would be left behind to live through the awful Tribulation. You ain't got nothing on me, just ask Mystic. He thinks my story is fascinating.
Yep, absolutely no way to be a good person if you don't believe in a god. Everything I said was completely twisted and not only that, lies were fabricated about me personally. You know what assuming gets you don't you? If you'd like I will share my story with you but it will have to be in above-mentioned thread. Or, you could look back through the many monikers of mine for my story.
Either way, you're so wrong it completely blows my mind.
As an American, shame on you. "$12,350 is the average annual tuition among the nation's 22,440 private K-12 schools". There are millions of Americans who would not be able to send their children to a private school. But, I guess there are many religious people who would like to dumb down America for religious purposes.
I'm noticing a difference between people who "just know" it's wrong to hurt someone else and those that think we need to be told that. The ones that don't appear to have that innate moral compass seem really focused on punishment.
I'm looking for something you gave that somehow showed what I gave is not correct.
Well first of all, I'm sure that we're all happy that you admit that religion does sometimes cause war. I'm certain that no one died or suffered needlessly in those 123 wars caused by religion.
Second, I'm sure we're all satisfied that you're using sources for your research that are neutral. You know...like a website that exists to make people be "A STRONGER AMBASSADOR FOR CHRIST". Couldn't be more neutral than that!
As to your mere speculation about rising from the dead...give us the proof that is more substantial than the scientific answers for how life and the universe began and evolved. Don't you dare say the bible because billions of people have not and not believe in the bible.
Now look at the back tracking...
"We don't need such antiquated ideas and beliefs and it does nothing but cause strife and wars."
The claim was made in a blanket way, despite the fact that the article I gave showed...."it gets worse for the atheists’ claim. A strong case can be made that atheism, not religion, and certainly not Christianity, is responsible for a far greater degree of bloodshed."
Now look at you run from that...
"Well first of all, I'm sure that we're all happy that you admit that religion does sometimes cause war."
Wow, you just really want to shine your halo real bad as you ignore you don't deserve any halo.
As the article showed..."If you remove the 66 wars waged in the name of Islam, it cuts the number down to a little more than 3%."
You won't look at all the needless suffering of your side...
"I'm certain that no one died or suffered needlessly in those 123 wars caused by religion. "
YOUR side said rape was good for evolution. How nice of your side. And why not, according to your side, we all got here by mere chance anyway with NO science to back that up, but....you're ok with that. Somehow that makes you feel important.
'Second, I'm sure we're all satisfied that you're using sources for your research that are neutral."
Oh, so it was not correct but you just lacked the evidence to show that their evidence was not correct. Wow, that must have took a lot of research time for you to give nothing.
"give us the proof that is more substantial than the scientific answers for how life and the universe began and evolved."
They happened supernaturally. I need to teach you some basic science.
Evidence points to nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. It must be observable, repeatable, and falsifiable. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This (the 1LT and 2LT) all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the doubters resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We know these laws and have NO doubts about them.
Then after creation*there are a WHOLE lot of things science never got around such as the fine-tuning of the universe so life can exist on earth, the beginning*of life, the designs of life forms, the information needing to be there before life started, the synchrony needed from the start, asexual and sexual reproduction, consciousness, logic, etc.
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