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Perhaps you’d do better to educate yourself re: the law. Harm in this country is relative to psychiatric illness and (criminal) behavior; religion, in and of itself, is no more harmful than a gun or alcohol. Hence the reason we imprison folks who are convicted of such vs. those who believe in a god, own a gun or have a glass of scotch now and then.
It’s akin to suggesting we need to lecture/argue gun owners relative to their choice, as a whole, because a small percentage of persons use them to kill/commit a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Small number? Not small at all.
Firearm homicides
Number of deaths: 20,958
Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.3
I was speaking relatively, in terms of the number of gun owners, in order to make a point. That said, I actually stated ‘a small percentage’.
Every major religion has a bloody history. Likewise, the past and present of Christianity has been just as violent. Catholics and Protestants have been murdering each other since Martin Luther challenged the authority of the Pope in 1517, and the killing has continued into recent history in places such as Northern Ireland.
Every major religion has a bloody history. Likewise, the past and present of Christianity has been just as violent. Catholics and Protestants have been murdering each other since Martin Luther challenged the authority of the Pope in 1517, and the killing has continued into recent history in places such as Northern Ireland.
Warning!
For those who constantly whine because I write more than bumper sticker slogans, please turn your eyes aside now. Perhaps there is a cereal box nearby to read instead - or instructions on how to make a frozen pizza. (Remember to remove pizza from box before eating).
The cold, hard reality that many Christians simply do not want to admit or address is that this violence is still there, lurking just under the surface. If not for our secular laws, there is absolutely NO doubt that gays and trans people would be rounded up and murdered en masse by Christian extremists while the vast majority of so-called "moderate" Christians look on.
They may offer up some weak protests when it first begins, but they will soon fall silent. Mainly because they will feel that they would be opposing both God and the Bible - given the barbarity of Yahweh's rules.
After all, this is precisely what has been happening in the Islamic world for the last 40+ years. It may be said that they are against the terrorism propogated by radical/Jihadist/fundamentalist/right-wing Islam, and even though the nay-sayers outnumber the terrorists thousands-to-one, somehow the terrorists remain free to carry out their plans - in some cases with the blessing of their governments. Given how many federal and state senators as well as governors, judges, and other governmental functionaries who abhor gays and trans people - no doubt the government would condone this violence here, too. Imagine then if both houses of congress AND the Oval Office were occupied by Republicans pandering to the likes of Cruz, Green, Jordan, and many others. Given the Supreme Court is already stacked with right-wingers ...
It must feel like Germany in the 1930's for some groups in this backpeddling country. The GOP actually voted AGAINST free school lunches for poor kids - despite the well-known fact that, in some households, this lunch is the only food kids get. But who cares if kids starve - and they might be Christians from Christian families! Why would they care about the lives - much less the rights - of gays and trans people? See where this could very well end up?
Is it any wonder, then, that GOP congressmen/women will never pass any meaningful legislation to control the gun violence epidemic? But hey, at least we'll get a mountain's worth of "thoughts and prayers."
And speaking of prayers - I find it rather damning for Christianity that some people, perhaps some on this very forum - will brag about how God answers all of their prayers which often consist of help dealing with petty, personal First World problems and yet ... God does nothing to protect innocent children who are gunned down by OTHER children wielding battlefield weapons - especially after Trump decided America would be better off if people with diagnosed schizophrenia, sociopathy, psychopathy, and long histories of violent behavior should be allowed to have guns, too!
(To make matters even more disgusting - some apologists will actually blame school shootings on the stupid notion that children are no longer allowed to pray in school. What's more is: Yeah. Allowing children as young as 5 years-old being shot up so bad that only via DNA can they be indentified is precisely the kind of monstrous thing Yahweh would do.
Perhaps you’d do better to educate yourself re: the law. Harm in this country is relative to psychiatric illness and (criminal) behavior; religion, in and of itself, is no more harmful than a gun or alcohol. Hence the reason we imprison folks who are convicted of such vs. those who believe in a god, own a gun or have a glass of scotch now and then.
It’s akin to suggesting we need to lecture/argue gun owners relative to their choice, as a whole, because a small percentage of persons use them to kill/commit a crime.
What is harmful about education, lecturing, or arguing?
What is harmful about education, lecturing, or arguing?
Good question.
The premise of C.cowboy’s however is incorrect.
Quote:
religion, in and of itself, is no more harmful than a gun or alcohol
This is a false comparison. Gun is a weapon and kills people. It belongs in warfare not civilian life. Alcohol is harmful to self, a danger to others because a person under the influence can behave badly, endanger lives if DUI. Religion does neither.
Religion is a belief. A belief by itself does no harm to others. Harm results only when the belief, if harmful to others, results in action. If that action harms others the person responsible pays the penalty regardless of what belief he holds. His belief does not, cannot.
What is harmful about education, lecturing, or arguing?
What’s harmful is the idea one can change or impose upon the beliefs/rights of others in this country (particularly when they use examples of religious or anti-theistic violence throughout history/the world to do so). Said rights apply to all persons no matter race, gender, (no) religion and so on. You respect the Bill of Rights (and yourself) or you don’t; however, you can’t selectively argue/lecture what you will accept (or not) based on your ‘good or bad’ beliefs re: religion in the same way theists can’t. As I see it, it’s the only leg we have to stand on as atheists because ‘ending religion’ is a fantastical perspective, no different than the belief in gods in and of itself.
That said, I find it bizarrely hypocritical when anti-theists have the same mentality as some Christians/fundamentalists i.e. they think they know what is best for everyone (and they're going to take every opportunity they can to preach it).
What’s harmful is the idea one can change or impose upon the beliefs/rights of others in this country (particularly when they use examples of religious or anti-theistic violence throughout history/the world to do so). Said rights apply to all persons no matter race, gender, (no) religion and so on. You respect the Bill of Rights (and yourself) or you don’t; however, you can’t selectively argue/lecture what you will accept (or not) based on your ‘good or bad’ beliefs re: religion in the same way theists can’t. As I see it, it’s the only leg we have to stand on as atheists because ‘ending religion’ is a fantastical perspective, no different than the belief in gods in and of itself.
That said, I find it bizarrely hypocritical when anti-theists have the same mentality as some Christians/fundamentalists i.e. they think they know what is best for everyone (and they're going to take every opportunity they can to preach it).
Your first paragraph I agree with in full.
Your second paragraph...everyone here has a POV and are here to express it. Some literally preach, others are more passive. But I can't think of a regular poster here whose position I don't pretty much have pegged.
What’s harmful is the idea one can change or impose upon the beliefs/rights of others in this country (particularly when they use examples of religious or anti-theistic violence throughout history/the world to do so). Said rights apply to all persons no matter race, gender, (no) religion and so on. You respect the Bill of Rights (and yourself) or you don’t; however, you can’t selectively argue/lecture what you will accept (or not) based on your ‘good or bad’ beliefs re: religion in the same way theists can’t. As I see it, it’s the only leg we have to stand on as atheists because ‘ending religion’ is a fantastical perspective, no different than the belief in gods in and of itself.
That said, I find it bizarrely hypocritical when anti-theists have the same mentality as some Christians/fundamentalists i.e. they think they know what is best for everyone (and they're going to take every opportunity they can to preach it).
Got it.
Yes. Ending religion is a fantasy unless a person doesn't respect the Bill of Rights. My other questions would be off-topic.
That said, I find it bizarrely hypocritical when anti-theists have the same mentality as some Christians/fundamentalists i.e. they think they know what is best for everyone (and they're going to take every opportunity they can to preach it).
But when you argue for freedom of religion, it is in order? Because some of those you have labelled anti-theist agree with freedom of religion.
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