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Old 04-14-2023, 01:56 PM
 
15,952 posts, read 7,015,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
As far as your point about Saddam's Iraq being secular, that appears to be debatable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state



But either way, I would never claim that only a religious theocracy could be a terrible government. Just look at atheist PRC.

Of course, it could also be argued that the state is sort of a religion in itself, in places like China or even more extreme version in North Korea.

Those pictures of Chairman Mao everywhere, kind of bring to mind a Jesus type figure.

Anyway, a government/state, should be secular, democratic, and constitutional. It can't have only some of those qualities.
Quote:
The Christians of Iraq are considered to be one of the oldest continuous Christian communities in the world. The vast majority of Iraqi Christians are indigenous Eastern Aramaic-speaking ethnic Assyrians who claim descent from ancient Assyria, and follow the Syriac Christian tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...n%20tradition.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:07 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,311,569 times
Reputation: 5056
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
It is always possible to acquire it, never too late. If you are going to compare religions and hold one responsible for most of the ills, you should at least have some expertise on the subject you are talking about. The more you know the more you will understand that it is not religion that is problem. It is always the people. Only people can do good and only people can do evil stuff.
What religion were you before you became atheist?
You sound like one of those people that suggest we ban pencils every time we try and discuss laws to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people. You are using the same argument and it's old.

Area of expertise: grew up in a cult and successfully escaped.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
You sound like one of those people that suggest we ban pencils every time we try and discuss laws to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people. You are using the same argument and it's old.

Area of expertise: grew up in a cult and successfully escaped.
I am not familiar with that argument. Placing a gun in a person’s hand makes the person a weapon itself. Guns dont kill on their own. Person does not kill without a weapon. The two combined is the weapon. Not sure where the pencil comes in.
Religion is a system. People take different things from it. If one thinks his religion says he should go kill someone, dont put a gun in his hand. The same religion may teach some one else to give food to the hungry. Put food in his hand and he will feed the hungry. Religion is neither gun nor food. Nor pencil
The action always belongs to the person. That is we dont arrest the gun and put it on trial. We prosecute the killer.
Dont confuse yourself with the NRA nonsense. Gun in the hand of a killer is death. No gun no death.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:24 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,311,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I am not familiar with that argument. Placing a gun in a person’s hand makes the person a weapon itself. Guns dont kill on their own. Person does not kill without a weapon. The two combined is the weapon. Not sure where the pencil comes in.
Religion is a system. People take different things from it. If one thinks his religion says he should go kill someone, dont put a gun in his hand. The same religion may teach some one else to give food to the hungry. Put food in his hand and he will feed the hungry. Religion is neither gun nor food. Nor pencil
The action always belongs to the person. That is we dont arrest the gun and put it on trial. We prosecute the killer.
Dont confuse yourself with the NRA nonsense. Gun in the hand of a killer is death. No gun no death.
We need to address the "system" that produced this person.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
We need to address the "system" that produced this person.
The system produces nothing. The person was produced by a person. The system is a body of knowledge. What the person gets out of it is a result of how he is shaped by his thoughts, tendencies, etc. and his intelligence and reason .
Two people can watch a movie and have very different response to it. A student of film studies will have yet another response.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:37 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,311,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
The system produces nothing. The person was produced by a person. The system is a body of knowledge. What the person gets out of it is a result of how he is shaped by his thoughts, tendencies, etc. and his intelligence and reason .
Two people can watch a movie and have very different response to it. A student of film studies will have yet another response.
You are speaking to someone who grew up in one of these environments and instead of listening to my information, you are talking over me. Typical.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:43 PM
 
15,952 posts, read 7,015,660 times
Reputation: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
You are speaking to someone who grew up in one of these environments and instead of listening to my information, you are talking over me. Typical.
I understand where you are coming from and it is a very sad, frightening experience. I am not taking anything away from your experience and your life story.
I am listening.
It is very hard to be objective when one is hurting.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:46 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,311,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I understand where you are coming from and it is a very sad, frightening experience. I am not taking anything away from your experience and your life story.
I am listening.
It is very hard to be objective when one is hurting.
Are you hurting?
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:53 PM
 
15,952 posts, read 7,015,660 times
Reputation: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Are you hurting?
I know when I am hurting I cannot be objective.
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Old 04-14-2023, 03:58 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,311,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I know when I am hurting I cannot be objective.
Just wondering if you were trying to tell me how I feel so you can tell me what I am doing wrong. You have no idea if I am being objective or not. Your behavior is following a pattern tho. I would think it's quite obvious how these anti-social ideologies can affect kids if even adults can get sucked in.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY
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