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You’ve presented this issue/comment many times; as such, it sounds personal for you, and I’m sorry for whatever it is you endured. That said, criminal activity is not the same as, or part of, the religion in and of itself; hence, stopping persons involved in such within (or under the guise of) a religious atmosphere is not the same as stopping religion, per your thread.
No, I didn't endure anything in the catholic religion, but knew people who did.
For me it was the absurdity of catholic practices and beliefs that killed off any vestige of belief in christianity in me.
You’ve presented this issue/comment many times; as such, it sounds personal for you, and I’m sorry for whatever it is you endured. That said, criminal activity is not the same as, or part of, the religion in and of itself; hence, stopping persons involved in such within (or under the guise of) a religious atmosphere is not the same as stopping religion, per your thread.
Yes it does because it represents freedom from oppression and freedom of thought
Those who believe in a god or (any) religion are entitled to freedom of thought as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
For me it was the absurdity of catholic practices and beliefs that killed off any vestige of belief in christianity in me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
No church is more oppressive than a Catholic one.
(Non) Beliefs are not earned; they are a right. I’m surprised by the (continual) lack of understanding (or willful ignorance), as evidenced by many posts, re: our freedom from religion equates to freedom of religion.
Logically and legally, there’s nowhere (else) to go with it.
Those who believe in a god or (any) religion are entitled to freedom of thought as well.
(Non) Beliefs are not earned; they are a right. I’m surprised by the (continual) lack of understanding (or willful ignorance), as evidenced by many posts, re: our freedom from religion equates to freedom of religion.
Logically and legally, there’s nowhere (else) to go with it.
The important distinction you are trying to highlight is between voluntary submission to "oppression" (as a member of a church) versus real legal oppression via secular law enforcement. Too many blur that distinction. Freedom of religion refers to the latter.
The important distinction you are trying to highlight is between voluntary submission to "oppression" (as a member of a church) versus real legal oppression via secular law enforcement.
I wasn’t highlighting anything relative to oppression (you/phet are); and if I were to do so, it certainly wouldn’t be this, lol. Legally, oppression is relative to a specific act or conduct that which causes harm or impedes/denies the rights of others (and is typically understood as the subjugation of one group by another), as in recent charges against Trump re: one count of conspiracy against rights i.e. attempts to ‘oppress, threaten and intimidate’ folks relative to their right to vote.
That said, how does one ‘voluntarily submit’ to oppression as a member of a church?
I wasn’t highlighting anything relative to oppression (you/phet are); and if I were to do so, it certainly wouldn’t be this, lol. Legally, oppression is relative to a specific act or conduct that which causes harm or impedes/denies the rights of others (and is typically understood as the subjugation of one group by another), as in recent charges against Trump re: one count of conspiracy against rights i.e. attempts to ‘oppress, threaten and intimidate’ folks relative to their right to vote.
That said, how does one ‘voluntarily submit’ to oppression as a member of a church?
I detect a semantic issue around the term oppression. As Phet uses it, it means subjecting your life decisions to" oppressive rules" supposedly issued by God and supporting imposing them on others in society through laws. Believers voluntarily accede to that kind of oppression.
It’s not oppression i.e. their rights have not been impeded/denied; in fact, they’ve exercised their right in doing so.
I got that and it IS what I suspected was the issue. My daughter is an attorney and I am well aware of the precision employed in the use of language that is otherwise not remotely similar to the rest of us in common parlance.
Belief in God (of whatever form or variant) does provide comfort to many, and in itself is not necessarily contributing to divisiveness or violence.
Organized religion is doing those things, especially Islam and to some degree Christianity. It gets deeply involved in politics and government, social conflicts, tribal divisiveness, and unnecessary war, violence, murder, other atrocities.
Personal belief in God can stay all it likes, but IMO religion should be eradicated, like the toxic rat poison that it is on our species and our fragile existence on this planet.
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