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Religion is a concept; it can’t control anyone. This is similar to believing guns kill when, in actuality, it’s a (small) percentage of persons behind a gun that are the problem. Hence the reason for laws and formal means of social control.
Religion is a concept; it can’t control anyone. This is similar to believing guns kill when, in actuality, it’s a (small) percentage of persons behind a gun that are the problem. Hence the reason for laws and formal means of social control.
The power of the catholic church, historically, was hardly just "a concept". The catholic church controlled people in many ways, not the least of which was the threat of hellfire and damnation.
The power of the catholic church, historically, was hardly just "a concept". The catholic church controlled people in many ways, not the least of which was the threat of hellfire and damnation.
Folks willingly believe in the concept (as is their right to do so). That said, it sounds as though you want to control them/their beliefs, per your thread.
Folks willingly believe in the concept (as is their right to do so). That said, it sounds as though you want to control them/their beliefs, per your thread.
I wish religions would go away; all are based on fictional "supreme" beings, which is nonsense. Over the centuries religions have been the source of massive conflict, death and human misery. Here's an old saying that sums it up:
In 6000 years of recorded history we humans have invented at least 3700 "gods." All fiction. Most were created to explain the natural world for which there was no science to explain "scary" things like the solar system, planets, how nature works or the origin of that bright thing up in the sky. If you visit Wikipedia and search on "Solar Deity" you'll get a long list of major sun gods from around the world. All fiction. All created to explain things for which no science then was available.
When humans don't have an explanation for something they make up an answer that suits them. All peoples, on all six habitable continents, have a "creator" myth. Native Americans have their "Great Father" myth, and so it went worldwide. Since men usually ran early/primitive societies, their version of a creator always was a male -- and said to be just like them.
The human mind CRAVES certainty. We want to KNOW, for sure, what's on the other side of the mountain, lake, river, or ocean, so we go exploring. Closed doors intrigue us, we open those doors to see what's on the other side; I that do every time I tour a home for sale ... to see what's hiding behind that door. That's why many nations have a version of the CIA; they want to know, for sure, what that guy is up to.
There were gods created to explain the natural world and nature's events. The wind usually blows from the west, so we learned about the "prevailing westerlies" in middle school because NOW we have the science to explain it. The Greeks didn't know this, so they created a god, Zephyrus. From Wiki:
Here in the USA, in the mid-1900s, our better railroads named their fastest, best passenger trains after Zephyrus. Many examples are found in Wiki. The whole point was to imply that these were fast trains . . . trains so fast that they ran with the wind. Many of these trains had first class service and truly fine dining while aboard.
So it went, worldwide, since time began, in every nation, city-state, tribe, clan, village and group of people. When humans band together to assure safety from saber-tooth tigers, lions, bears, mastodons, or safety from other groups, there are two things which soon appear. One, who's in charge, who's the Poobah we salute and whose orders we follow. Two, they set the rules for group living. Call them what you will; rules of engagement, rules of the road, a code you can live by, norms and standards. Western religion long ago settled on the mythical origin of the Ten Commandments. No matter where on the planet we go, each "society" of people had the equivalent of the Ten Commandments. Such metrics went by various names, but the gist was the same; a set of shared standards critical for peaceful co-existence and harmony in the group -- which in ancient times truly was necessary for sheer survival. Within the past 20 years, explorers found as-yet undiscovered primitive tribal peoples in a remote area of the Amazon rain forest. Yep, they had their own home-grown version of the "ten commandments" even though no white man ever preached the gospel to them.
I could go on, but my bottom line is we need to move on from ancient explanations for the origins of the universe, natural world and all creatures known and yet unknown. It is what it is, nothing more, and not the magical creation of a magical being. Let's call the Book of Genesis what it really is, the world's first super hero comic book wherein an invisible being, who sees all and knows all, somehow spits out a limitless universe that's so immeasurable there are not enough commas and zeroes to measure the weight of it all.
We need to replace religions with something like Secular Humanism, the belief that humanity is capable of morality and self-fulfillment without belief in God. Convert church buildings to local 'ethical debate societies;' gathering places, a community center where all are welcome and the needs of the local humanity are addressed. Some churches provide a semblance of community with their various programs but the cost of inclusion is the required buy-in to their deity.
From Wiki:
We humans can do this. It's way past time to go there.
What I want is a community of fellow citizens, without the theology.
It would be remiss of me if I didn't mention Jesus. Yes, he existed. But I will not buy the myths around him. He didn't walk on water, the SCIENCE of tree rings tells us there was a period of very cold weather in his region in his timeframe. No doubt the edges of a lake or river froze over and he set foot on the ice while illiterate fisherman saw this and went agog -- after all, they'd never seen ice before. And no, he didn't rise from the dead, his followers rolled the stone away from the cave his body was in and they buried him elsewhere. But yes, he existed and he said some nice things. IMO Jesus and the modern day musician, Jerry Garcia (deceased) were the same thing; a nice guy who said likable things, traveled around spreading his word (music) at gatherings attended by fans (disciples). Many teachings of Jesus could be incorporated into the ethic of Secular Humanism, just leave out the mythology and theology. Both were cool guys; peace, love and brotherhood. Let's get on with it.
What I want has no bearing on how other people choose to live.
Would I be relieved if people came to their senses and woke up? Of course. Lots of problems in the world would go away and all of the hours and money apparently wasted could be put to good use actually helping society - feeding hungry, cleaning and beautifying cities, making art, etc.
Would I be relieved if people came to their senses and woke up? Of course. Lots of problems in the world would go away and all of the hours and money apparently wasted could be put to good use actually helping society - feeding hungry, cleaning and beautifying cities, making art, etc.
Religious organizations/churches already ‘actually help society’ i.e. Feed the Hungry, World Vision, Salvation Army and so on. From my perspective, if it takes religion to motivate folks to give/do something about the world we live in and those less fortunate, why would I (or any atheist) want to stop it?
If you look carefully at these "charitible works" you would see that they are full of discriminatory practices and heavy duty proselytizing. We would be far better off putting these funds in the hands of the non-religious for dispursement.
From my perspective, if it takes religion to motivate folks to give/do something about the world we live in and those less fortunate, why would I (or any atheist) want to stop it?
A fair rhetorical question. I am uncertain that religion is still effective as such a motivator though. People have less disposable $$ (and time/leisure, thanks to their coporate overlords) and less interest in church these days.
I am highly dubious that it was the only way to motivate people, ever, even if that was the default.
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