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That is the thing to achieve higher we must become higher in identity and become more capable. We can only do this through spiritual understanding. Suffering came to Jesus Christ, a perfect person, Who was God and came from heaven. Jesus promised suffering for those who follow and do not follow Him. Those who follow Him because of spiritual and religious jealously, and those who do not because of the rule of the devil and his forces hatred. How we handle suffering is not to give it to God but be determined and committed and stay steadfast, looking to the eternal reward but trying to work with God to at least lessen the problems we have. That is possible.
Jesus is not the only teacher and christianity not the only belief system.
That is the thing to achieve higher we must become higher in identity and become more capable. We can only do this through spiritual understanding. Suffering came to Jesus Christ, a perfect person, Who was God and came from heaven. Jesus promised suffering for those who follow and do not follow Him. Those who follow Him because of spiritual and religious jealously, and those who do not because of the rule of the devil and his forces hatred. How we handle suffering is not to give it to God but be determined and committed and stay steadfast, looking to the eternal reward but trying to work with God to at least lessen the problems we have. That is possible.
I find that when it comes to human problems, it makes more sense to work with the humans right in front of me. Saves a lot of time and arguing. YMMV, of course.
I find that when it comes to human problems, it makes more sense to work with the humans right in front of me. Saves a lot of time and arguing. YMMV, of course.
Quite probably, as some Christians do not distinguish between extrinsic and intrinsic purpose -- or they insist that all purpose must be god-given (from outside ourselves, therefore extrinsic).
I still don't think we have a purpose per se, although we can make it our life mission to be the best at whatever our particular brand of talents are. To waste intelligence and talent is a tragedy to me.
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My view is that there is no inherent purpose or meaning in life, because it is neither directed nor personal; but that we have the ability and the predisposition to FIND or MAKE purpose and meaning FOR OURSELVES.
Yes that's what I meant in so many words. WE make our own purpose.
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Just as fundamentalism denigrates "mere" human wisdom or intelligence and bids one rely on external commands / instructions and purpose bestowed supposedly from on high, they effectively either deny personal meaning-making, or relegate it to a secondary / subservient role within god's bestowed purpose.
This double-whammy is a great tragedy as it prevents people from fully realizing their own potential or really fully knowing themselves, and allows the substitution of someone else's meaning and purpose (allegedly god's, but in fact, that of the church, or more exactly the particular dogma as interpreted by one's own denomination).
Absolutely. It makes me angry that my potential was squashed by religious fanaticism. No grudges held, but it is sad. I can't stand the fact that religion controls the minds of so many who could be contributing to society in better ways through their intelligence and talent.
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o the contrary, it is entirely right and appropriate to seek out our purpose. I am sure that both Keller and Hawking would want to INSPIRE that seeking, despite any obstacles, as that is what they were all about -- they would not want, I'm certain, to be taken as more worthy and therefore we should not wonder about our own place in the world.
That's not exactly what I meant. Seeking a purpose to your life FREELY is good. but listening and being brainwashed into believing that god has a purpose for you even when you can't figure out what the heck it is......maddening. So much potential inside those church walls that will never be realized.
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There's room for change even without more effective mental health standard-of-care, though that would certainly help. I don't think most of the problems in the world are the result of mental disorders, since mental disorders make people less effective both at doing beneficial AND harmful things -- and while a lot of people suffer from mental problems, it is not the majority.
I'm very close to the issue of mental illness, so I feel I know more than most people who have never dealt with it. I know you have, but I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree about this. I feel that every single person suffers from some type of mental disorder, that's been my experience. Could just be the people around me that I have been exposed to but everyone is struggling with OCD, anger issues, bipolar, schizophrenia, and tons of undiagnosed issues. Vices included.
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To my mind what most suffer from are not mental or emotional problems but under-developed character. I read a very persuasive essay this week that argues that hypengyophobia is one of the big problems. This is the abnormal fear of personal responsibility. And it is not really a true phobia, so much as a learned helplessness. This explains all the emphasis on self-care in the past couple of decades, which is not bad in principle but must be in balance with care for others. We can't be bothered to make the slightest sacrifice for others because it implies we have responsibility for each other. Hence for example the general willingness to be in denial about the "tri-demic" currently in progress (Covid, RSV and severe flu -- with flu-like illness causing hospitalizations at 4x the rate normally seen this winter in the US). Hence the preference for inaction on a whole range of fronts.
There's that too. But abnormal fear IS a mental disorder. Learned helplessness I agree with, but does not fall in line with someone who is aware of what they are doing and they do it anyway. That's lack of character AND a mental condition. Lack of empathy. Sacrifice is hard, no doubt. And some don't want any part of that. To me, personality flaws coincide with mental issues. I believe the entire population has some sort of disorder (but not you, of course) it's just what you choose to do about that. Some disorders are worse than others. It's up to the individual to be self-aware enough to seek help. 125 Americans die each day from suicide. That is tragic. As to the tri-demic, I've had a bout with pneumonia recently and my Mother is in the hospital right now with severe pneumonia. It's terrible and everyone should be wearing a mask again.
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Another manifestation of what I mention about responsibility above. Previous generations of elderly could expect at least some basic respect for their experience and wisdom, however insufficient; we get basically none at all. My stepdaughter in her teens blurted out suddenly one say to her mother, "please don't make me take care of you in your old age". That is the general attitude, no giving back, no looking after of other's needs.
I'm very close to that too, my son made me shake to the fact that he can put me in a nursing facility if I need to be taken care of. I'm not against it, I just don't like the idea of it. It is definitely a problem with the elderly, so overlooked and disrespected. You're right, that is the general attitude. I've never seen so much selfishness and entitlement. It's this generation and it's scary to think what their future is going to be like.
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And we love you for that. Just be careful that you aren't so wrapped up in that, that when your mother is gone, you have no purpose ;-) One must always be making new meaning and purpose, at least around the edges.
Haha thanks, I appreciate that. It was just an example of what might be the case if there were a god. As it stands, she took care of me and all I'm doing is reciprocating. It's that simple. Not too much to ask really, but apparently 40 year olds should start thinking about geriatric care if they want to make sure they are taken care of.
Sorry it took so long for me to respond, it's been a cluster of sickness around here.
I'm very close to the issue of mental illness, so I feel I know more than most people who have never dealt with it. I know you have, but I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree about this. I feel that every single person suffers from some type of mental disorder, that's been my experience. Could just be the people around me that I have been exposed to but everyone is struggling with OCD, anger issues, bipolar, schizophrenia, and tons of undiagnosed issues. Vices included.
Well yes my 1st wife was very seriously mentally ill, but my 2nd wife was very seriously physically ill, and one of the niggling problems with her particular illness was that the CDC case definition of the illness was way broader in the US than abroad, with the result that it did let in some malingerers / hypochondriacs / head cases, and this made it harder for her to compete for scarce treatments AND harder for her to be taken seriously concerning her experience / symptoms. And most of the research funding and actual scientific progress was happening outside the US.
I feel this is what is happening with the line between, say, neurosis and mental illness. If virtually everyone has undiagnosed issues, then either the definition of mental illness is too broad or everyone's brains are disintegrating at once.
What I think is widespread is magical thinking (or as I said in another thread, "fideism"), caused by a lack of teaching or modeling critical thinking skills and oft-encouraged by religious ideation. This gives rise to irrational and eventually neurotic behavior and in people vulnerable to mental illness, can tip them over the edge.
I would like to see diagnoses of several mental illness such as Borderline Personality Disorder, Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, and OCD not dished out for remotely questionable cases. Even then, they are on a spectrum of severity. My 1st wife was in a bad way with the first two on that list, but I am careful not to assume everyone with anger issues or who runs hot and cold is Borderline or that everyone who is withdrawn or not very trusting is schizophrenic, either. I prefer to leave that to mental health professionals.
All that said, I don't think we disagree much on substance. People are under way more stress now than in recent human experience, and a particular kind of diffuse and pervasive stress that it's difficult to find refuge from. It's manifesting in all sorts of unhappy ways. On this we agree, if maybe not on the precise reasons or labels.
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Originally Posted by Northsouth
As to the tri-demic, I've had a bout with pneumonia recently and my Mother is in the hospital right now with severe pneumonia. It's terrible and everyone should be wearing a mask again.
Yeah my FIL had a stroke but caught Covid in the hospital and then landed back there with double pneumonia. Now he requires 24/7 oxygen, is bed-bound, incontinent, and blind. Before this last round of illness he could see, even read with magnification aids, could move about with a walker, and use the bathroom normally.
I feel as though anyone over a Certain Age is considered expendable anymore, given that most severe illness and death is in the elderly and this is actually an argument for Not Doing Anything by way of mitigation.
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Originally Posted by Northsouth
Sorry it took so long for me to respond, it's been a cluster of sickness around here.
I never take it personally when someone doesn't respond; there are a zillion reasons why that might be the case. So you never have to worry about that :-)
Hate to bust your bubble but you're still in a cult. A satanist cult. Satan controls you.
Good grief……
Other than the above post, this has been a great thread with lots of good info, insights, and AUTHENTICITY
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) it's just what you choose to do about that. Some disorders are worse than others. It's up to the individual to be self-aware enough to seek help. 125 Americans die each day from suicide. That is tragic. As to the tri-demic, I've had a bout with pneumonia recently and my Mother is in the hospital right now with severe pneumonia. It's terrible and everyone should be wearing a mask again.
