Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think the fair way to answer it is that your "belief" (assuming it is the standard fare) demands that non believers suffer eternal punishment. That is highly annoying.... and you would think the same if we insisted that you guys had a similar fate while we floated on white fleecy clouds in heaven.
But we don't. We don't believe we are going to be rewarded for being correct if indeed we are. And we don't believe that you are going to be punished for being wrong.
The vast majority of unbelievers, including myself, really don't care what others believe (though we often care about the many subtle and overt ways in which some believers try to impose belief on others, and manipulate and gaslight around it). But people come here to discuss and debate, for various reasons: we enjoy the repartee, it helps to sharpen our thinking, we have a religious past that informs our interest in the topic, etc. So the question could just as well be asked of you: why does our unbelief bother you that much? Believe what you want.
Or maybe you're just here to have an exchange of ideas and better understand why (for example) people don't believe in the same things you do. I certainly wouldn't assume more than that. So why would you?
Based on my fundagelical past, I'll tell you why I think we get this kind of annoyed query from believers as much as we do: it's because we have some pretty good points, and it requires effort to deal with the cognitive dissonance and internal resistance to not believing and the fear of consequences thereof. I have no idea if it's true of you personally because I don't know you -- nor if it's true of any specific person here. But I would be unsurprised to find it's in the mix often. If a logical argument with actual evidence is presented, and all you have to respond with is illogic and unsupportable assertions, that is enough to chafe anyone's hide. It's understandable.
Well put, and what you put in parens is certainly true for me as well.
It's been interesting for me to witness in this forum the many different ways people react to these points of disagreements. It's the way people address these differences that can be very telling as to the reason(s) why.
I think the fair way to answer it is that your "belief" (assuming it is the standard fare) demands that non believers suffer eternal punishment. That is highly annoying.... and you would think the same if we insisted that you guys had a similar fate while we floated on white fleecy clouds in heaven.
But we don't. We don't believe we are going to be rewarded for being correct if indeed we are. And we don't believe that you are going to be punished for being wrong.
There's also that thing called ego that has a way of causing people to resist proper consideration of alternative ways of thinking. Including the facts, reason and logic that is presented to support alternative ways of thinking. AKA confirmation bias.
I think the fair way to answer it is that your "belief" (assuming it is the standard fare) demands that non believers suffer eternal punishment. That is highly annoying.... and you would think the same if we insisted that you guys had a similar fate while we floated on white fleecy clouds in heaven.
But we don't. We don't believe we are going to be rewarded for being correct if indeed we are. And we don't believe that you are going to be punished for being wrong.
I dont believe anything of the sort. If you dont believe then you dont believe.
There's also that thing called ego that has a way of causing people to resist proper consideration of alternative ways of thinking. Including the facts, reason and logic that is presented to support alternative ways of thinking. AKA confirmation bias.
Asteroid discovery suggests ingredients for life on Earth came from space
"Two organic compounds essential for living organisms have been found in samples retrieved from the asteroid Ryugu, buttressing the notion that some ingredients crucial for the advent of life arrived on Earth aboard rocks from space billions of years ago.
Scientists said on Tuesday they detected uracil and niacin in rocks obtained by the Japanese Space Agency's Hayabusa2 spacecraft from two sites on Ryugu in 2019. Uracil is one of the chemical building blocks for RNA, a molecule carrying directions for building and operating living organisms. Niacin, also called Vitamin B3 or nicotinic acid, is vital for their metabolism."
God is non-existent.There's no evidence at all to suggest a god had anything to do with life on earth. It came from space. There's the evidence.
To be fair, and I'm playing devils advocate here, the article doesn't prove anything one way or another related to 'god'.
1. The article doesn't say that 'life' came from space. It is simply saying a couple of 'ingredients' (compounds) found on an asteroid in space are the same ingredients that are also found on earth, and the same compounds may have also have been brought here by asteroids billions of years ago.
Those ingredients at some point in the past were instrumental to the advent of RNA on earth.
The article is not saying that 'life' (or RNA) was formed elsewhere and was then brought here, only that the ingredients that may have given rise to life may have been.
Frankly, everything at some point came from space. We are IN space.
The earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. About 4 billion years ago the earth and every other planet and body was pelted with asteroids from all over, in a period called the late heavy bombardment.
Water may have also been brought here at the same time in the form of ice comets. No life can thrive without water and water is the key. It's probably no co-incidence that it's thought that life on earth began at the end of the late heavy bombardment.
2. Earth is still the only body we know of right now for sure that can support life. The conditions here are just right. We live in the Goldilocks Zone, not only within our own solar system, but within our own galaxy.
As previously stated, the Earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago - that's around a third the age of the universe itself. It's now thought that the black hole at the center of our galaxy (Sagittarius A*), that helped sculpt our galaxy, formed in the very early universe, from one of the very first stars, not long after the big bang. The earth only survived the conditions it has, for as long as it has due to our location on the outer arm of our galaxy formed around Sagittarius A*. So essentially we've been forming just the right conditions to harbor life here, since the dawn of time.
There is no reason to suppose that life somehow formed elsewhere billions of years ago and was somehow carried across impossible distances in frigid and burning temperatures. It is far more likely that life formed right here.
.
.
.
.
.
A final point - Lets for arguments sake say, life formed elsewhere and was brought here, which IMO, for reasons stated above, is highly improbable. But lets say they were. Only young earth creationists would care about that right? Most people who believe in a god or gods seem to believe that their god created the earth AND the universe. So it wouldn't impact their belief still, surely?
Of course, but when one is committed to objectively considering the facts and truths of these matters while the other not so much, it's hard not to think the problem of confirmation bias is more likely with the person who is not as committed to critically thinking about the objective facts and truths of these matters. Or how else to better explain these differences and/or judge the reason(s)?
Of course, but when one is committed to objectively considering the facts and truths of these matters while the other not so much, it's hard not to think the problem of confirmation bias is more likely with the person who is not as committed to critically thinking about the objective facts and truths of these matters. Or how else to better explain these differences and/or judge the reason(s)?
And once again, that can apply to both sides. Im not sure what you are asking.
To be fair, and I'm playing devils advocate here, the article doesn't prove anything one way or another related to 'god'.
1. The article doesn't say that 'life' came from space. It is simply saying a couple of 'ingredients' (compounds) found on an asteroid in space are the same ingredients that are also found on earth, and the same compounds may have also have been brought here by asteroids billions of years ago.
Those ingredients at some point in the past were instrumental to the advent of RNA on earth.
The article is not saying that 'life' (or RNA) was formed elsewhere and was then brought here, only that the ingredients that may have given rise to life may have been.
Frankly, everything at some point came from space. We are IN space.
The earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. About 4 billion years ago the earth and every other planet and body was pelted with asteroids from all over, in a period called the late heavy bombardment.
Water may have also been brought here at the same time in the form of ice comets. No life can thrive without water and water is the key. It's probably no co-incidence that it's thought that life on earth began at the end of the late heavy bombardment.
2. Earth is still the only body we know of right now for sure that can support life. The conditions here are just right. We live in the Goldilocks Zone, not only within our own solar system, but within our own galaxy.
As previously stated, the Earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago - that's around a third the age of the universe itself. It's now thought that the black hole at the center of our galaxy (Sagittarius A*), that helped sculpt our galaxy, formed in the very early universe, from one of the very first stars, not long after the big bang. The earth only survived the conditions it has, for as long as it has due to our location on the outer arm of our galaxy formed around Sagittarius A*. So essentially we've been forming just the right conditions to harbor life here, since the dawn of time.
There is no reason to suppose that life somehow formed elsewhere billions of years ago and was somehow carried across impossible distances in frigid and burning temperatures. It is far more likely that life formed right here.
A final point - Lets for arguments sake say, life formed elsewhere and was brought here, which IMO, for reasons stated above, is highly improbable. But lets say they were. Only young earth creationists would care about that right? Most people who believe in a god or gods seem to believe that their god created the earth AND the universe. So it wouldn't impact their belief still, surely?
Interesting and some good points well taken, about what the article says or does not. Although I largely agree with your devil's advocating, I'm not sure I entirely agree with some of your assumptions. For example...
You say "no life can survive without water." Is this true? I know this is true for life as we know it here on earth, but is it not possible that some other intelligent beings may exist that are not reliant on water?
I suppose the odds are probably better that life was somehow spawned here on earth, but I'm not so sure life couldn't have been transported here from somewhere else in space. Perhaps lower odds, but still possible I think. We've found life to somehow find a way to survive even in the most harsh of conditions here on earth, so maybe some form of life was able to survive the trip here from somewhere in outer space.
All fascinating to consider, especially if restricting ourselves to objective critical thinking about what perhaps we can or should assume. As to your final point, I think a lot of people would care about the answers to these questions for a variety of reasons. I know I do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
