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The histrionic diatribe in the OP's video is just that, a mindless histrionic diatribe. Put essentially the same histrionics in the mouth of an anti-atheist or anti-Muslim Christian, and I and most other Christians would wince and be embarrassed. Only the hardcore fringe would be favotably impressed.
The real issue concerns competing claims about ultimate Truth, not competing lifetstyles or political agendas.
Statement #2 above - "I am not interested in your religion because I do not want to be like you" - falsely assumes that Christians are all alike. Indeed, "you" appears to refer to all "religious people." The poster would prefer to be like any irreligious person that any religious person? Really?
More fundamentally, the core issue with any religion, or atheism for that matter, is Truth. Does the belief system correspond to ultimate reality? Whether Truth produces people we "want to be like" is irrelevant to anyone whose quest is to get as close to Truth as is humanly possible.
Statement #1 above likewise suffers from faulty reasoning. Atheists love to assume the default position for humanity is that there is no Truth, there is no morality apart from personal opinion, all lifestyles are equally valid, and everyone should be free to follow his or her own path without interference. But, of course, there is no default position. There are only competing claims about ultimate Truth.
Christians do not get to dictate how atheists or Hindus live their lives any more than atheists or Hindus get to dictate how Christians live their lives. All, however, do get to attempt to influence legislation and public opinion to reflect their respective understandings of ultimate Truth. Christians are as free to spread their Truth, including the truth of the Bible as God's word, as others are to promote their own scriptures and texts and ridicule the Bible as nonsense.
Part and parcel of the Christian understanding of ultimate Truth is a mandate to spread the Gospel to a lost world. That mandate includes warnings that Christians will suffer rejection, persecution and worse. As Christians carry out this mandate, they are obviously going to butt heads with those who don't want to hear the message or have conflicting understandings of Truth. The atheist and humanist communuties are just as interested in "dictating" their understandings of Truth as are Christians, Muslims and other religious people. The atheist understanding of Truth is such that it allows them to pretend they are preaching tolerance and not really attempting to dictate anything, but we see this lie exposed over and over - including in the video in the first post.
I'm always a bit surprised at how consistently the atheist community falls into the same traps of faulty reasoning as do many "religious people." This can only be, I believe, because atheism occupies precisely the same place in the lives of many atheists as religion does in the lives of many religious believers. It blinds the individual to critical thinking and even rational thinking.
The OP thinks the video is fantastic and impressive. Put the exact same histrionics in the mouth of a young Christian blonde in a red dress who rants about how sick she is of atheists and their ridicule of biblical morality, then see how fantastic and impressive it sounds. Sure, some Christians would lap it up, but the vast majority would wince and recognize it as nothing more than a histrionic diatribe that says nothing of substance and is ultimately counterproductive to the spread of the Gospel message.
Wow. You got it bad don't you. Ok, did you wander into the wrong forum or something? This is the Atheist/Agnostic forum, those people who disagree are fine, debate on with respect. But this is proselytizing, which is not allowed. But no worries, I won't report you. That's what people do to me. I do not report people so, there's that. Feel free to sling your hatred in the R&S, but it ain't happening here.
I don't require or respect your opinion. I posted this for whoever might enjoy it, and everyone else seemed to like it. Probably because they're atheists. You reckon? Enjoy your delusion. I prefer to live in reality.
So you actually believe that your belief/religion is based on "ultimate Truth". So, are you reading the atheist sub-forum in order to chastise people or to get an understanding of why people do not choose the same beliefs you do? It seems you are here to chastise and denigrate people who don't believe the same as you.
Even as a christian you should understand that is none of your business what anyone else believes unless they are in your face, like some christians tend to be when they think they have found someone who "needs to be saved". I don't see athiests telling christians that they will burn in hell unless they change their beliefs. I don't see muslims or budhists or hindu doing that either, only christians.
The histrionic diatribe in the OP's video is just that, a mindless histrionic diatribe. Put essentially the same histrionics in the mouth of an anti-atheist or anti-Muslim Christian, and I and most other Christians would wince and be embarrassed. Only the hardcore fringe would be favotably impressed.
The real issue concerns competing claims about ultimate Truth, not competing lifetstyles or political agendas.
Statement #2 above - "I am not interested in your religion because I do not want to be like you" - falsely assumes that Christians are all alike. Indeed, "you" appears to refer to all "religious people." The poster would prefer to be like any irreligious person that any religious person? Really?
More fundamentally, the core issue with any religion, or atheism for that matter, is Truth. Does the belief system correspond to ultimate reality? Whether Truth produces people we "want to be like" is irrelevant to anyone whose quest is to get as close to Truth as is humanly possible.
Statement #1 above likewise suffers from faulty reasoning. Atheists love to assume the default position for humanity is that there is no Truth, there is no morality apart from personal opinion, all lifestyles are equally valid, and everyone should be free to follow his or her own path without interference. But, of course, there is no default position. There are only competing claims about ultimate Truth.
Christians do not get to dictate how atheists or Hindus live their lives any more than atheists or Hindus get to dictate how Christians live their lives. All, however, do get to attempt to influence legislation and public opinion to reflect their respective understandings of ultimate Truth. Christians are as free to spread their Truth, including the truth of the Bible as God's word, as others are to promote their own scriptures and texts and ridicule the Bible as nonsense.
Part and parcel of the Christian understanding of ultimate Truth is a mandate to spread the Gospel to a lost world. That mandate includes warnings that Christians will suffer rejection, persecution and worse. As Christians carry out this mandate, they are obviously going to butt heads with those who don't want to hear the message or have conflicting understandings of Truth. The atheist and humanist communuties are just as interested in "dictating" their understandings of Truth as are Christians, Muslims and other religious people. The atheist understanding of Truth is such that it allows them to pretend they are preaching tolerance and not really attempting to dictate anything, but we see this lie exposed over and over - including in the video in the first post.
I'm always a bit surprised at how consistently the atheist community falls into the same traps of faulty reasoning as do many "religious people." This can only be, I believe, because atheism occupies precisely the same place in the lives of many atheists as religion does in the lives of many religious believers. It blinds the individual to critical thinking and even rational thinking.
The OP thinks the video is fantastic and impressive. Put the exact same histrionics in the mouth of a young Christian blonde in a red dress who rants about how sick she is of atheists and their ridicule of biblical morality, then see how fantastic and impressive it sounds. Sure, some Christians would lap it up, but the vast majority would wince and recognize it as nothing more than a histrionic diatribe that says nothing of substance and is ultimately counterproductive to the spread of the Gospel message.
First, in response to statement Number 2. I reserve that for specific situations. If you were able to read other posts I have made, or if you were able to see the world in something other than "Either/or" or "Black and White" you might comprehend that.
But to reiterate, I have used that statement a few times, the last two, oddly enough, were in Dallas TX One with a Christian pastor who was convinced that anyone and everyone and everything for that matter who did not agree with him 100% was a "satanist" When I used that phrase with him, he lost that fake phony smile he always wore, and then he shut up. For good At least around me
Same with the other one. We did not have the term "Karen" in use at the time, but a youth pastors wife who insisted that everyone had to think and believe as her...or else... was silenced when I pointed out that "people don't want to think like you because they do not want to be like you"
If you read anything we discuss here, you would know that although I am a vocal atheist, I am also very helpful at a friend's church with all the ministry and charity programs, including rolling up my sleeves and doing manual labor for no pay just to help others......
In response to Statement one, there is something called Evidence. Consider that, because no religious person has demonstrated any evidence for their claims (ever)
While Buddhism is a more attractive philosophy to this big cat, and does teach selflessness which I have encountered to be practiced by many Buddhists, we have no common evidence which points to an "ultimate truth" That allows the field of Philosophy to be endlessly fascinating for us.
In regards to the Bold comment above, yes, you are correct , but do not forget that we have a separation of church and state here in America, even if a few (very few fortunately) do not want it....So to influence one idea at the expense of others is not right unless we can all agree on what that "ultimate Truth" is...
I have hand numerous clients and others talk with me about their use of hallucinogens to achieve a deeper understanding or alternate reality. What I am told , over and over, is that the experience is "Indescribable" and "mind altering" Well, obviously, the synapses are randomly firing, and the conscious steam is not able to fully process and comprehend this activity, no language is available to them to describe it.
I try not to enter into a discussion from a flawed assumption or engage in strawman arguments. I find it difficult sometimes to converse with extreme Christians who maintain an either /or explanation for anything and everything. I don;t think atheists can be clumped together in one argumentative style any more than Christians can. But before we assume some ultimate truth, lets agree on an evidential starting point. Then we can discuss philosophical beliefs and ideas as they pertain to this area. The OP did simply say that they liked this piece, and that cannot be argued.
Statement #2 above - "I am not interested in your religion because I do not want to be like you" - falsely assumes that Christians are all alike.
They are all alike in all the ways that matter.
They all believe in a non-existent being that has/is/will meddle in their lives and the lives of others and that this non-existent being will judge them and put them in a non-existent place for eternity after they die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
Statement #1 above likewise suffers from faulty reasoning. Atheists love to assume the default position for humanity is that there is no Truth,...
The Truth is there are no gods. Never were any gods. Even if there would be a god, that god wouldn't be aware of your existence and doesn't give a damn if you exist or not because you are of no importance in this Universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
...there is no morality apart from personal opinion,...
That isn't true. Morality exists independent of gods and would exist whether gods existed or not.
It doesn't take a big brain to figure out that murder is wrong and that there are any number of measures to prove that it imposes unnecessary, unwanted, and unwarranted costs on society and that it is destructive to families and communities and that it prevents society from advancing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
Christians do not get to dictate how atheists or Hindus live their lives any more than atheists or Hindus get to dictate how Christians live their lives.
That is demonstrably false.
X-tians impose their will on others under the guise of religion. It was x-tians who legalized slavery. Slavery was/is immoral and that people refused to recognize or admit that it was immoral does not make it moral.
Worse than that, both x-tian gods, the Yahweh-thing and the Jesus-thing, supported and condoned slavery.
A morally inferior god is not a god at all. It's just something a morally inferior person would dream up.
The Hindu caste system is also immoral and it was imposed on people by Hindus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
Part and parcel of the Christian understanding of ultimate Truth is a mandate to spread the Gospel to a lost world.
A gospel that is flawed, erroneous, contradictory, false, and morally inferior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
That mandate includes warnings that Christians will suffer rejection, persecution and worse.
And they should and they should because it is their beliefs that are wrong.
The Jesus-thing explicitly in no uncertain terms states in Matthew the only way to pray.
You go into your room in private and you recite the only authorized prayer.
The Jesus-thing states in no uncertain terms that people who pray in churches and on the streets and in schools are hypocrites and that they will get their just reward meaning their prayers will not be answered.
Then we have x-tians spitting in the face of the Jesus-thing and disrespecting him by forcing people to pray in schools.
If forcing x-tians to obey their god is persecution by banning school prayer, well, that just shows you how far off their rocker they really are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
The atheist and humanist communuties are just as interested in "dictating" their understandings of Truth as are Christians, Muslims and other religious people.
Assuming arguendo that is true, Atheists harm no one. You can't say the same about the others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
I'm always a bit surprised at how consistently the atheist community falls into the same traps of faulty reasoning as do many "religious people."
The four gospels conflict and contradict concerning the day Jesus was crucified. If there's any faulty reasoning, it's in the gospels.
They all believe in a non-existent being that has/is/will meddle in their lives and the lives of others and that this non-existent being will judge them and put them in a non-existent place for eternity after they die.
The Truth is there are no gods. Never were any gods. Even if there would be a god, that god wouldn't be aware of your existence and doesn't give a damn if you exist or not because you are of no importance in this Universe.
That isn't true. Morality exists independent of gods and would exist whether gods existed or not.
It doesn't take a big brain to figure out that murder is wrong and that there are any number of measures to prove that it imposes unnecessary, unwanted, and unwarranted costs on society and that it is destructive to families and communities and that it prevents society from advancing.
That is demonstrably false.
X-tians impose their will on others under the guise of religion. It was x-tians who legalized slavery. Slavery was/is immoral and that people refused to recognize or admit that it was immoral does not make it moral.
Worse than that, both x-tian gods, the Yahweh-thing and the Jesus-thing, supported and condoned slavery.
A morally inferior god is not a god at all. It's just something a morally inferior person would dream up.
The Hindu caste system is also immoral and it was imposed on people by Hindus.
A gospel that is flawed, erroneous, contradictory, false, and morally inferior.
And they should and they should because it is their beliefs that are wrong.
The Jesus-thing explicitly in no uncertain terms states in Matthew the only way to pray.
You go into your room in private and you recite the only authorized prayer.
The Jesus-thing states in no uncertain terms that people who pray in churches and on the streets and in schools are hypocrites and that they will get their just reward meaning their prayers will not be answered.
Then we have x-tians spitting in the face of the Jesus-thing and disrespecting him by forcing people to pray in schools.
If forcing x-tians to obey their god is persecution by banning school prayer, well, that just shows you how far off their rocker they really are.
Assuming arguendo that is true, Atheists harm no one. You can't say the same about the others.
The four gospels conflict and contradict concerning the day Jesus was crucified. If there's any faulty reasoning, it's in the gospels.
At the risk of being accused of pointing out the obvious, your reply boils down to nothing more than "I believe atheism is the winner in the battle of competing understandings of ultimate Truth." OK, fine, but I and billions of other deists and theists happen to disagree. Billions who disagree with my Christianity disagree with you as well. And so it goes. Because ultimate Truth isn't verifiable in our present existence, all we can do is arrive at our best respective understandings and agree to disagree.
You have said precisely nothing of actual substance and have made a number of conclusory assertions that no critical-thinking atheist would make - pretty much the equivalent of a Christian asserting that Christianity is the clear winner because silly atheists posit no God when there obviously is one. The Christian choir might find that assertion "fantastic" and "impressive," but everyone else would recognize it begs the question and assumes that which is to be proven.
Your reply merely underscores the very points I made in the post to which you were replying - and does so, amusingly, in the same histrionic tone of the video linked by the OP. And so it goes. Predictably, so it goes.
The histrionic diatribe in the OP's video is just that, a mindless histrionic diatribe. Put essentially the same histrionics in the mouth of an anti-atheist or anti-Muslim Christian, and I and most other Christians would wince and be embarrassed. Only the hardcore fringe would be favotably impressed.
The real issue concerns competing claims about ultimate Truth, not competing lifetstyles or political agendas.
Statement #2 above - "I am not interested in your religion because I do not want to be like you" - falsely assumes that Christians are all alike. Indeed, "you" appears to refer to all "religious people." The poster would prefer to be like any irreligious person that any religious person? Really?
More fundamentally, the core issue with any religion, or atheism for that matter, is Truth. Does the belief system correspond to ultimate reality? Whether Truth produces people we "want to be like" is irrelevant to anyone whose quest is to get as close to Truth as is humanly possible.
Statement #1 above likewise suffers from faulty reasoning. Atheists love to assume the default position for humanity is that there is no Truth, there is no morality apart from personal opinion, all lifestyles are equally valid, and everyone should be free to follow his or her own path without interference. But, of course, there is no default position. There are only competing claims about ultimate Truth.
Christians do not get to dictate how atheists or Hindus live their lives any more than atheists or Hindus get to dictate how Christians live their lives. All, however, do get to attempt to influence legislation and public opinion to reflect their respective understandings of ultimate Truth. Christians are as free to spread their Truth, including the truth of the Bible as God's word, as others are to promote their own scriptures and texts and ridicule the Bible as nonsense.
Part and parcel of the Christian understanding of ultimate Truth is a mandate to spread the Gospel to a lost world. That mandate includes warnings that Christians will suffer rejection, persecution and worse. As Christians carry out this mandate, they are obviously going to butt heads with those who don't want to hear the message or have conflicting understandings of Truth. The atheist and humanist communuties are just as interested in "dictating" their understandings of Truth as are Christians, Muslims and other religious people. The atheist understanding of Truth is such that it allows them to pretend they are preaching tolerance and not really attempting to dictate anything, but we see this lie exposed over and over - including in the video in the first post.
I'm always a bit surprised at how consistently the atheist community falls into the same traps of faulty reasoning as do many "religious people." This can only be, I believe, because atheism occupies precisely the same place in the lives of many atheists as religion does in the lives of many religious believers. It blinds the individual to critical thinking and even rational thinking.
The OP thinks the video is fantastic and impressive. Put the exact same histrionics in the mouth of a young Christian blonde in a red dress who rants about how sick she is of atheists and their ridicule of biblical morality, then see how fantastic and impressive it sounds. Sure, some Christians would lap it up, but the vast majority would wince and recognize it as nothing more than a histrionic diatribe that says nothing of substance and is ultimately counterproductive to the spread of the Gospel message.
The person in the video was talking precisely about religious people trying to force their religious beliefs into our shared laws.
The histrionic diatribe in the OP's video is just that, a mindless histrionic diatribe. Put essentially the same histrionics in the mouth of an anti-atheist or anti-Muslim Christian, and I and most other Christians would wince and be embarrassed. Only the hardcore fringe would be favotably impressed.
The real issue concerns competing claims about ultimate Truth, not competing lifetstyles or political agendas.
Statement #2 above - "I am not interested in your religion because I do not want to be like you" - falsely assumes that Christians are all alike. Indeed, "you" appears to refer to all "religious people." The poster would prefer to be like any irreligious person that any religious person? Really?
More fundamentally, the core issue with any religion, or atheism for that matter, is Truth. Does the belief system correspond to ultimate reality? Whether Truth produces people we "want to be like" is irrelevant to anyone whose quest is to get as close to Truth as is humanly possible.
Statement #1 above likewise suffers from faulty reasoning. Atheists love to assume the default position for humanity is that there is no Truth, there is no morality apart from personal opinion, all lifestyles are equally valid, and everyone should be free to follow his or her own path without interference. But, of course, there is no default position. There are only competing claims about ultimate Truth.
Christians do not get to dictate how atheists or Hindus live their lives any more than atheists or Hindus get to dictate how Christians live their lives. All, however, do get to attempt to influence legislation and public opinion to reflect their respective understandings of ultimate Truth. Christians are as free to spread their Truth, including the truth of the Bible as God's word, as others are to promote their own scriptures and texts and ridicule the Bible as nonsense.
Part and parcel of the Christian understanding of ultimate Truth is a mandate to spread the Gospel to a lost world. That mandate includes warnings that Christians will suffer rejection, persecution and worse. As Christians carry out this mandate, they are obviously going to butt heads with those who don't want to hear the message or have conflicting understandings of Truth. The atheist and humanist communuties are just as interested in "dictating" their understandings of Truth as are Christians, Muslims and other religious people. The atheist understanding of Truth is such that it allows them to pretend they are preaching tolerance and not really attempting to dictate anything, but we see this lie exposed over and over - including in the video in the first post.
I'm always a bit surprised at how consistently the atheist community falls into the same traps of faulty reasoning as do many "religious people." This can only be, I believe, because atheism occupies precisely the same place in the lives of many atheists as religion does in the lives of many religious believers. It blinds the individual to critical thinking and even rational thinking.
The OP thinks the video is fantastic and impressive. Put the exact same histrionics in the mouth of a young Christian blonde in a red dress who rants about how sick she is of atheists and their ridicule of biblical morality, then see how fantastic and impressive it sounds. Sure, some Christians would lap it up, but the vast majority would wince and recognize it as nothing more than a histrionic diatribe that says nothing of substance and is ultimately counterproductive to the spread of the Gospel message.
Well articulated post. Not seen the video, don’t need to after the above description.
I posted this for atheists and agnostics, and anyone else who lives in reality, btw. No atheist cares what you think, I think Ana made that real clear in her "diatribe". Oh and, you're accusing this woman of the exact thing you did in 2 of your posts. Relentlessly hopeless are those who refuse to see life for what it is.
You would be so much happier and less hateful (maybe) if you would just stop and address the doubts in your head. You obviously have them or you wouldn't be in the A&A arguing. See, I've been where you are and you're doing the very thing I did when I was such a religious fanatic.........you're arguing with atheists. Look what happened to me . Better run for that mountain top. I did that too.
What is life to you O'Darby? Just to be spent worshiping an invisible sky fairy? I suppose you'll be leaving us soon in the Rapture. Bye-bye.
I posted this for atheists and agnostics, and anyone else who lives in reality, btw. No atheist cares what you think, I think Ana made that real clear in her "diatribe". Oh and, you're accusing this woman of the exact thing you did in 2 of your posts. Relentlessly hopeless are those who refuse to see life for what it is.
You would be so much happier and less hateful (maybe) if you would just stop and address the doubts in your head. You obviously have them or you wouldn't be in the A&A arguing. See, I've been where you are and you're doing the very thing I did when I was such a religious fanatic.........you're arguing with atheists. Look what happened to me . Better run for that mountain top. I did that too.
What is life to you O'Darby? Just to be spent worshiping an invisible sky fairy? I suppose you'll be leaving us soon in the Rapture. Bye-bye.
I suspect a "diatribe" is whenever a young blond in a red dress doesn't mind her place around O'Darby.
If you were able to read other posts I have made, or if you were able to see the world in something other than "Either/or" or "Black and White" you might comprehend that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
your reply boils down to nothing more than "I believe atheism is the winner in the battle of competing understandings of ultimate Truth."
But O'Darby you do not see the world at all, you hide from it. You see this as a competition, the bolded in your above statement about "winning" you mentioned twice. It is not a competition. Atheists are not competing, you are. I can't speak for other atheists but there is no competition, we win by the sheer fact that science is on our side.
You can't argue with science, it is fact. I've heard other Christians say "well I don't believe in science"....that's just the dumbest statement ever. It doesn't matter what you believe is real, if it doesn't add up scientifically, then it's bogus.
Science is the "ultimate truth". That's it. That's all you have is a belief, no facts. Please please please educate yourself.
John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:14
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
You are wasting your time here O'Darby. We are on different planes of existence. You're not living and are looking forward to death so you can leave this evil world and receive your riches in heaven. Atheists ARE living, right here in the moment, while we are conscious and breathing. You should try it.
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Better run for that mountain top. I did that too.
