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So that's the same for some atheists and their 'facts' right?
I can't think of a thing in terms religion and spirituality that I accept as fact. Theravada Buddhism works for me. And so that's what I am -- a Theravada Buddhist. But I don't tell people that it is the correct path. I don't believe there's a god. I don't STATE as a fact that there is no god. I could be wrong.
If I wasn't already confident in my agnosticism, going to Catholic school as a teenager cemented it for me. It was a great school. They had us read the Epic of Gilgamesh, taught us all of this comparative religion . . . it was a great education but how they expected anyone to be religious after that was beyond me.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of serious problems with the Catholic Church as an institution and Catholicism as a religion, but this is actually one of the things I appreciate about Catholicism. They got the censorship thing mostly out of their system a while ago and unlike some Christian groups aren't trying to keep people Christian by restricting their access to information that might make them think. I was taught in Catholic school that observation of the natural world (aka SCIENCE) is one of the ways we can learn about God, which I think is lovely, and also a real can of worms theologically, lol.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of serious problems with the Catholic Church as an institution and Catholicism as a religion, but this is actually one of the things I appreciate about Catholicism. They got the censorship thing mostly out of their system a while ago and unlike some Christian groups aren't trying to keep people Christian by restricting their access to information that might make them think. I was taught in Catholic school that observation of the natural world (aka SCIENCE) is one of the ways we can learn about God, which I think is lovely, and also a real can of worms theologically, lol.
Agreed. I still feel a connection to the culture and yeah, the LaSallian Brothers definitely have an interest in science and knowledge. I've always respected that. And yeah, they believe in free will so, you're free to be an atheist.
This sounds so familiar. Sorry about your grandparents both passing away so recently and close together, and that they were so dysfunctional. Unfortunately, things do get very glossed over at a religious funerals. I have a story to tell about that. I've told it here before so if you've read it, just "gloss" over it.
I come from an extreme Fundamental Evangelical background. My Dad was a real insane fanatic, the kind of person that would stand up in a church, in the middle of a sermon, and argue with the Pastor about what he was teaching. Ok, you have an idea.
One of his ex-wives's children, who was around 40 at the time, passed away from cancer. He was autistic, but I used to work with him a very long time ago and he was intense, but he just wanted to be left alone. He never smiled or seemed to experience the type of feelings that most of us feel because of his autism.
I was constantly trying to make him laugh and joke around with him to see him smile. It only happened a couple of times but he did and it was great to see that. There were lots of circumstances behind his death and I was sad to hear that.
His funeral was underway and I guess my Dad went. I didn't live there then so I'm not sure whether he went or just showed up while it was happening. Either way, this time damned if he didn't do it at a funeral.
He argued with the Pastor who was officiating that he should not be trying to make the deceased sound like he was a christian, because the deceased was in fact, not a christian. He broke the case wide open and figured it out, all on his own, that the deceased was going to hell and the Pastor was lying to make everyone else feel better.
I'm surprised someone didn't punch his lights out. There are no words to describe what he did. Unbelievable and incomprehensible just don't quite cover it. It's appalling. I'm so very happy I was not there. He embarrassed me enough growing up. I felt so bad for my ex-stepmother and the family. I was ashamed to be related to this man. HE was an abuser too, like your Grandfather. Some people you don't cry over. I just consider them to be out of their obvious misery.
You'll never hear "John Doe split the gates of hell wide open" today. Many of the people at the funeral knew my grandfather was a real piece of work a lot of times. Like anyone else, he could also be a good person, but most people don't do the things he's done in his life. It's not like all of this was decades in the rearview mirror either - he was threatening to kill people a few months ago for putting him in the nursing home. He was slapping her around last year.
Was some of his behavior related to dementia symptoms? Probably. For years, people would excuse the behavior "because he's an alcoholic." He was sober for over a decade before his death. At some point, that's just who he is, regardless of drinking, dementia, or whatever.
Many of the people with the most skeletons in their closet (whom I've known personally, anyway) are always front and center with their religion.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of serious problems with the Catholic Church as an institution and Catholicism as a religion, but this is actually one of the things I appreciate about Catholicism. They got the censorship thing mostly out of their system a while ago....
I'm not seeing any evidence of that.
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Originally Posted by Floorist
If a group of people hear voices it is a religion. If only one person hears voices, it is a mental illness. (schizophrenia).
Forensic psychiatry and forensic psychology have a lot to say about those who wrote the Hebrew texts and gospel texts.
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Originally Posted by Hermit12
So that's the same for some atheists and their 'facts' right?
At least Atheist facts are plausible.
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Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
Many of the people with the most skeletons in their closet (whom I've known personally, anyway) are always front and center with their religion.
That's one of many problems with religion. People like that wield it as a shield to hide their faults which is damaging not only to them but to others around them.
You'll never hear "John Doe split the gates of hell wide open" today. Many of the people at the funeral knew my grandfather was a real piece of work a lot of times. Like anyone else, he could also be a good person, but most people don't do the things he's done in his life. It's not like all of this was decades in the rearview mirror either - he was threatening to kill people a few months ago for putting him in the nursing home. He was slapping her around last year.
I worked in a nursing home and I found that the people who were very mean during their life, were the absolute horrors in the nursing home. It sounds like he was just a miserable old codger who was very unhappy. What a terrible way to live one's life, especially since we only have one. I wouldn't want anyone to feel indifferently about me when I die. His misery is over for him and for everyone else. Maybe he also had some sort of mental disorder. Maybe not, some people are just born mean.
Quote:
Was some of his behavior related to dementia symptoms? Probably. For years, people would excuse the behavior "because he's an alcoholic." He was sober for over a decade before his death. At some point, that's just who he is, regardless of drinking, dementia, or whatever.
It is who he was. I'm sorry he did that to your grandmother and at the nursing home, it's unfortunate but no one could change him except himself. I'm sure your grandmother tried. Maybe not.
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Many of the people with the most skeletons in their closet (whom I've known personally, anyway) are always front and center with their religion.
That is the truth. They are simply hiding behind religion and since "all is forgiven" by god, they are allowed to be as hypocritical as they want. Not in my book. I'm reminded of so many people over the years who were just nasty, narcissistic, phony, fake, liars, and they all claimed Fundamental Evangelical Christianity.
I know what a hypocrite looks like. That's why I love that HBO show "The Righteous Gemstones." It is soooo very accurate. They must have researched evangelicalism because they got it right. There are some things that are exaggerated, of course, but all in all I can attest to the actual legitimacy of the depiction of those types of Christians.
The people here at C-D in this forum that are screaming behind their computers about their self-righteousness, and who are twisting and turning everything to try and convince people like us that they are better somehow......It's all so ridiculous and insane really. I love to call out hypocrites and bs. I guaran-damn-tee you that if there were a god, it would take all the people who were good to the core no matter what they did or didn't believe. Not these hypocritical side-winders.
So that's the same for some atheists and their 'facts' right?
Hermit, science has all the "facts" that you so severely need to look into. Atheists go with what's real, tangible you know...what we can see with our own eyes and experience in the moment. Not in some pretend, made-up fairy tale that has sadly been perpetuated for the last 2000 years. It's time for it to stop. Those who are extremists, no matter what religion, are wasting their insane breath trying to convince atheists to drink the kook-aid. Once you are awakened, it all becomes crystal clear.
You need to look deep inside yourself and ask why you are here arguing with atheists. Like I said, I did that too in the beginning and I was searching for something. I was looking for some real talk and intelligent people to help me through the confusion and doubt. People who had no agenda to sway me one way or the other. And, they helped me out of the Fundamentalist cultish mess I was in.
You have the wrong idea about agnostics and atheists. I think you have the wrong idea about anyone who doesn't agree with you. I was taught that atheists were evil, basically. Try to be more open-minded and stop relying on ancient "holy" books to guide you. Talk to people without proselytizing, without pre-conceived notions, without quoting the bible or referring to it all the time. Really listen.
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Agreed. I still feel a connection to the culture and yeah, the LaSallian Brothers definitely have an interest in science and knowledge. I've always respected that. And yeah, they believe in free will so, you're free to be an atheist.
