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Not the percentages of people who claim to be religionists.
I would compare the daily religious behavior of people who claim to be religionists.
I will go back again to my home town.
Methodist church: Literally closed and out of business.
Catholic church: In my time in the town = 16 masses per week, with another roughly 16 masses per week in the village up the road. Now in my home town 2 masses per week, with another 4 masses in the village up the road. Combined that's 32 masses down to 6.
For the masses (no pun intended), daily religious life is not what it was in the past.
Even the Catholic press is admitting it: "In 1970, Catholics who attended Mass weekly or more often were 54.9%, but by 2022 the figure was 17.3%. Monthly or more frequent Mass attendance—including the weekly or more frequent attenders—was 71.3% in 1970 and 36.6% in 2022." -- https://www.catholicworldreport.com/...ss-attendance/
Yes. This is a little different from how atheism has grown very moderately over time. What's happening in religious circles is far more significant in terms of change and impact.
From what I can tell, it's not scaring the religious at all...
Always seems the opposite to me as they tend to pity atheists for not having the relationship with God like they enjoy. Besides all that, the trend toward more atheists even with the help of a bigger soap box has been quite modest at best. Not sure from where your perspective may differ or what you understand the numbers to be, but I believe the surveys have indicated there were only about 4% of American adults who claimed themselves atheists about four years ago. Not all that many more than just 2% a little over a decade before that.
A good many fewer calling themselves religious but not all that many claiming to be atheists in any case.
The numbers are hardly any more impressive even if you lump agnostics in with atheists...
You wish even in the 80's when online atheism was just starting, theism claimed that atheists were no more than 8%. So where are you getting your 2% or 4% from? There is no indication that atheism is declining so it has to be growing or still at 8%
The survey seem to make no category for non-religious and atheist (which is not the same thing) and so theist apologists can claim (and do) that atheism has not incresed even if irreligion has increased (28 0r 29% last survey I recall.
Not the percentages of people who claim to be religionists.
I would compare the daily religious behavior of people who claim to be religionists.
I will go back again to my home town.
Methodist church: Literally closed and out of business.
Catholic church: In my time in the town = 16 masses per week, with another roughly 16 masses per week in the village up the road. Now in my home town 2 masses per week, with another 4 masses in the village up the road. Combined that's 32 masses down to 6.
For the masses (no pun intended), daily religious life is not what it was in the past.
Even the Catholic press is admitting it: "In 1970, Catholics who attended Mass weekly or more often were 54.9%, but by 2022 the figure was 17.3%. Monthly or more frequent Mass attendance—including the weekly or more frequent attenders—was 71.3% in 1970 and 36.6% in 2022." -- https://www.catholicworldreport.com/...ss-attendance/
Yes. Some years ago the rise in irreligion was causing a panic. There were videos about deconverts,hand -wringing about declining church attendance and 'how can we get people to listen to what we preach?' videos. Well, we never hear it now. Because the trend has stopped? I have no reason to think so. Because it isn't news? I think that may be likely. Because religion is now politicized? Only in fundamentalist religion. Many others seem to just keep their religion to themselves and out of politics.
I suspect that irreligion is continuing, but it won't be until the next religion - opinion survey gives the believers and churches a rocket that we'll see the discussion surfacing again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Yes. This is a little different from how atheism has grown very moderately over time. What's happening in religious circles is far more significant in terms of change and impact.
Irreligion has grown significantly and we might be astonished at how many identify as 'irreligious' or 'agnostic' even if they won't use the term 'atheist'. It doesn't matter for example that Neil DeGrase Tyson, who is actually a non - believer, will not come out and say that he is the atheist he knows he really is. He knows that would see him and his career finished.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-15-2023 at 10:26 AM..
From what I can tell, it's not scaring the religious at all...
They're literally debating "the great dechurching" - their term. Religion is slipping in attendance, fundraising and in power.
Belief is losing its status as the default position.
If you're looking for new new atheism, it's simply people who don't care. They're not giving the question more than a fleeting moment of thought. They don't need someone to verbalize why they're not believers, any more than they need to explain to themselves and the world why they're not collecting stamps.
Irreligion has grown significantly and we might be astonished at how many identify as 'irreligious' or 'agnostic' even if they won't use the term 'atheist'.
I would agree with this. Is there such a thing as "whateverism"?
You wish even in the 80's when online atheism was just starting, theism claimed that atheists were no more than 8%. So where are you getting your 2% or 4% from? There is no indication that atheism is declining so it has to be growing or still at 8%
The survey seem to make no category for non-religious and atheist (which is not the same thing) and so theist apologists can claim (and do) that atheism has not incresed even if irreligion has increased (28 0r 29% last survey I recall.
I'd like to know where you got your figures from.
"The share of Americans who identify as atheists has increased modestly but significantly in the past decade. Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019 show that 4% of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 2% in 2009. An additional 5% of Americans call themselves agnostics, up from 3% a decade ago." -- Pew Research Center
You wish even in the 80's when online atheism was just starting, theism claimed that atheists were no more than 8%. So where are you getting your 2% or 4% from? There is no indication that atheism is declining so it has to be growing or still at 8%
The survey seem to make no category for non-religious and atheist (which is not the same thing) and so theist apologists can claim (and do) that atheism has not incresed even if irreligion has increased (28 0r 29% last survey I recall.
I'd like to know where you got your figures from.
number of "atheists" is growing.
however the number of "theists" is growing at a faster rate.
Time magazine (2015 article), "Atheists will make up a smaller fraction of the world’s population in 2050."
Pew data 2021, USA 4% atheists
And within that group of self-identified atheists, 19% "believe in god, higher power, or spiritual force"
Yeah since atheism is definitionally not believing in god, then there are only three possibilities:
1) Bad survey design or interpretation
2) Giving lip service to theism to get along, as you suggest, or some other form of fence-sitting, such as "I really don't believe but want to hold onto my beliefs in some form at the same time"
3) 19% of people willing to call themselves atheists don't know what the word even means
I suspect it's a combination of all three. Atheists ARE people, and people are nothing if not illogical and inconsistent and constantly hedging / trying to have their cake and eat it to. And especially here in the US even many atheists haven't completely thought through the implications of their unbelief.
"The share of Americans who identify as atheists has increased modestly but significantly in the past decade. Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019 show that 4% of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 2% in 2009. An additional 5% of Americans call themselves agnostics, up from 3% a decade ago." -- Pew Research Center
Ok, If you are quoting the Pew results I gues I can't argue with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
number of "atheists" is growing.
however the number of "theists" is growing at a faster rate.
Time magazine (2015 article), "Atheists will make up a smaller fraction of the world’s population in 2050."
Pew data 2021, USA 4% atheists
And within that group of self-identified atheists, 19% "believe in god, higher power, or spiritual force"
I recall that was due to the increase in muslims projected, while Christians were projected to decline, relative the the irreligious.
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even in the 80's when online atheism was just starting, theism claimed that atheists were no more than 8%. So where are you getting your 2% or 4% from? There is no indication that atheism is declining so it has to be growing or still at 8% 
