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Yes. We are very good at adding additional meanings to objects and events. It's a skill I wish I possessed more of.
Meaning, for me, is whatever I decide it is. It's no more or less prosaic than that.
Today meaning was obtained by setting up my new Mac Studio computer and resolving an issue with the software I'm working on for a client relating to correctly reporting loan types coming from a new file format.
This would be the next person's idea of hell, doubtless. But it floated my boat mightily. And that's what made it meaningful.
Some people would say that's not "feeling some kind of spirituality". But to be completely honest I think people who would say that are just using "spiritual" as a $25 word instead of "content" or "fulfilled" ... it's like they don't deserve contentment or fulfillment unless it's glorified in some way by some god or an elevated word like "spirituality".
Meaning, for me, is whatever I decide it is. It's no more or less prosaic than that.
Today meaning was obtained by setting up my new Mac Studio computer and resolving an issue with the software I'm working on for a client relating to correctly reporting loan types coming from a new file format.
This would be the next person's idea of hell, doubtless. But it floated my boat mightily. And that's what made it meaningful.
Some people would say that's not "feeling some kind of spirituality". But to be completely honest I think people who would say that are just using "spiritual" as a $25 word instead of "content" or "fulfilled" ... it's like they don't deserve contentment or fulfillment unless it's glorified in some way by some god or an elevated word like "spirituality".
Pfft.
That sounds like hell to me.
Spiritual seems to be more along the lines of connection. Connected to something larger than yourself. Love is spiritual for sure. In your case your skill connects you.
Spiritual seems to be more along the lines of connection. Connected to something larger than yourself. Love is spiritual for sure.
Connection to something larger is just a fancy way to say "purpose". My purpose, in part, is to enable my client to offer a clearly superior service. I wake up every morning eager to deliver and to overcome the challenges involved. It helps that my client isn't a greedy posterior orifice, and appreciates the value I bring.
As you mention, it can be very different for others, and that's fine.
More along the lines you seem to be thinking, I have known love, and it can feel transcendent at times ... and very practical at others. I just finished my 3rd daily session bending my wife's legs as she continues to heal from her total knee replacements. I find that purposeful too. Although, nether of us find it transcendent, lol.
Connection to something larger is just a fancy way to say "purpose". My purpose, in part, is to enable my client to offer a clearly superior service. I wake up every morning eager to deliver and to overcome the challenges involved. It helps that my client isn't a greedy posterior orifice, and appreciates the value I bring.
As you mention, it can be very different for others, and that's fine.
More along the lines you seem to be thinking, I have known love, and it can feel transcendent at times ... and very practical at others. I just finished my 3rd daily session bending my wife's legs as she continues to heal from her total knee replacements. I find that purposeful too. Although, nether of us find it transcendent, lol.
Purpose is part of a larger whole with connection IMO.
Purpose is part of a larger whole with connection IMO.
What, to you, is "a larger whole"? My wife is outside me. My stepson is outside me. My clients are outside me. My colleagues are outside of me. Therefore they are all part of "a larger whole" to which I connect and with which I interact. There's another universe of people I don't interact with on a daily basis -- my daughter, my brother, my grandchildren. There is plenty in my life to make up a "larger whole" or "greater purpose".
This reminds me of how atheists have to interact with twelve-step programs. They want us to identify with and tap into a "higher power". I have never needed to deal with such programs but know atheists who have and they just shrug and say "my higher power is this group" or "other people" or "our community". It doesn't have to be something that feels "out there" or isn't visible or that even that causes good feels, really. It just has to be something that you feel you are contributing to and that feels purposeful.
Put another way, what is wrong with "a larger whole" being something real instead of something imaginary or something that can only be vaguely sensed?
So it is a matter of our own feelings, not so much anything spiritual about the rock?
Yes.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
I bet you could do it as well as anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Meaning, for me, is whatever I decide it is. It's no more or less prosaic than that.
Today meaning was obtained by setting up my new Mac Studio computer and resolving an issue with the software I'm working on for a client relating to correctly reporting loan types coming from a new file format.
This would be the next person's idea of hell, doubtless. But it floated my boat mightily. And that's what made it meaningful.
Some people would say that's not "feeling some kind of spirituality". But to be completely honest I think people who would say that are just using "spiritual" as a $25 word instead of "content" or "fulfilled" ... it's like they don't deserve contentment or fulfillment unless it's glorified in some way by some god or an elevated word like "spirituality".
Pfft.
Sorry, my bad. What I was referring to was the ability to use metaphors/words. I think it is quite fascinating that somebody can put into words my own experiences and feelings.
I appreciate the warm response, though. Thank you.
The question posed by the OP was whether some atheists feel some kind of spirituality. The answer is, indeed they do.
The little x-tians feel threatened when non-believers get spiritual.
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Originally Posted by O'Darby
I had extensive discussions on the IANDS forum with a woman who'd had two deep, profound Near Death Experiences but was nevertheless a "devout" atheist (and a scientist, FWIW). She was intensely spiritual but nevertheless didn't believe in a deity.
That the mind plays tricks is neither proof of any god-thing nor proof of an afterlife.
It's just proof the mind plays tricks.
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Originally Posted by O'Darby
Spiritual atheism, as he defines it, does not include any truly supernatural component.
Why would it? Atheists reject the supernatural, in part because it's nothing more than superstition on steroids.
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Originally Posted by LearnMe
The incredible myriad of beautiful life forms, shapes, colors and characteristics that have evolved from a simple one source of life going back millions of years. A source science has yet to discover.
Science cannot discover it ever.
Bacteria, Archaea, Eukaryota and Virus are the four base domains.
There may have been other base life domains but we'll never know because that evidence was obliterated through tectonic plate action or volcanism.
It could have formed in an inland sea that was created by a rift formation. The rift widens then the plates collide and it's at the bottom undergoing metamorphosis.
Whatever it was, it ain't that now.
Does that mean it's pointless to search? Well, Economics. There's only so much research dollars to go round and you need a bang for your buck.
It wouldn't benefit us except in understanding life forms on other planets.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Ex lawyer? That explains a few things.
Probably got disbarred.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Yes. I don't recall ever being taught evolution, though I was taught religion...quite a lot...
I don't recall, either. I only remember it from the zoology course I took which was absolutely fascinating.
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
However, there are some useful moral precepts in all of the religions as well. I consider those to be valid.
No, there aren't and I take issue with the implication that religion is necessary for morality when morality is nothing more than common sense.
You CLEARLY did not read the description of the research project, which identified the participants, methodology and purposes.
Why would I want to?
I have no interest in any research on Atheism for the same reason I don't read books about Atheism.
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Originally Posted by O'Darby
By kicking against this reality and trying to insist you occupy some higher intellectual ground, you do indeed fall into a gotcha trap of sorts. As I said, why not just admit it - "Damn right, I'm an Anti-Theist! - for which there is no shame?
That reminds me. Are you ever going to study the gospels?
Why don't you want to?
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Originally Posted by O'Darby
I can at least understand a Bible-thumping Christian proselytizer because spreading the Gospel in fulfillment of the Great Commission is at least a major theme of Christianity.
Murdering people for not believing and murdering people for accepting 95% of the tenets but not the whole nine yards was a major theme, too.
I'm here to make sure that never happens again. Not ever.
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Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
Obviously, I’ve never bashed atheism; your problem is that, as an atheist, I’ve never bashed religion.
That's disgusting since you claim to be a lawyer and know the harm religion does.
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Originally Posted by Jack Apple
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven." -- Jesus, quoted by Matthew in his Gospel, Chapter 18 verse 10.
That's from the King Joke Vision who are proven liars and they make things up.
If you bothered to view the data it stems from CBH melachim (messengers).
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Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
It’s common for atheists to equate spirituality with consciousness/thought/awareness (of the mind and the world) whereas others/religious folks tend to think of it in terms of spirits or a soul rather than relative to the brain and neuroscience.
Obviously, you don't get it. The Greeks concocted the idea of a soul to explain something they couldn't understand, namely, consciousness and psyche.
The wrote a lot about it. They called it Tyche (Fortune) and Daimon (Spirit).
They even tried to mathematically calculate it. You take the position of the Sun and Moon and the degree of the zoida (image) rising at the equator at your moment of birth.
Then you calculate the distance from Moon to Sun and add that to the ascending degree at that's Tyche.
Then you calculate the distance from Sun to Moon and add that to the ascending degree and that's Daimon.
And then they would look to see were the planets were in relation to Daimon to see what kind of person you were.
Obviously, I’ve never bashed atheism; your problem is that, as an atheist, I’ve never bashed religion. Hence your manipulative attempt to control the narrative (and my opinion) again.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
That's disgusting since you claim to be a lawyer and know the harm religion does.
It’s this sort of intolerance/disgust that makes it impossible to take folks seriously as having anything rational to discuss. Again, Constitutional Law is the best/only weapon we have to fight for our rights as atheists. I’m simply not blinded by anger (or an inability to communicate effectively/intelligently), as you appear to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Obviously, you don't get it. The Greeks concocted the idea of a soul to explain something they couldn't understand, namely, consciousness and psyche.
Obviously, you don’t get it i.e. atheists don’t believe in supernatural beings or ‘souls’; we use the terms consciousness or awareness relative to the function of our brain. Brain death is death.
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I bet you could do it as well as anyone.
