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Mordant, as much as you and the other atheists desire to focus on your "UN-BELIEF" the simple truth is that it IS still a BELIEF just with a negative valence.
Here I agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The cognitive state is the same whether with positive or negative valence.
There is usually a difference between people who believe in Yetis, ghosts, or little green men visiting earth and simply not believing those claims. This is the same for religion. Positive beliefs are usually conscious and have something invested in them, such as time. Disbelief can often be simply unconscious.
The opening post mentions a previous trend which saw an increase in the number of the "nones" (those who do not identify with any religion.) However that previous increase shows it is now leveling off.
In the 2024 published research findings, Has the rise of religious ‘nones’ come to an end in the U.S.? it reports that for the last five years the figure is stable, with three of the last five years at 28%.
"That’s marginally lower than our surveys indicated in 2022 and 2021, and identical to what we found in 2020 and 2019, which raises a question: After decades of sharp growth, has the rise of these religious “nones” ended? The identical results found in three of the last five years are a sign of stability in the size of this population."
Here I agree with you. There is usually a difference between people who believe in Yetis, ghosts, or little green men visiting earth and simply not believing those claims. This is the same for religion. Positive beliefs are usually conscious and have something invested in them, such as time. Disbelief can often be simply unconscious.
Yes, and here are some of the conscious positive beliefs for the religious "nones," a group specifically discussed in the opening post.
70% of the nones have a conscious positive belief in god or a higher power. 63% of the nones have a conscious positive belief in spiritual forces beyond the natural world. 67% of the nones have a conscious positive belief that humans have a soul or spirit in addition to a physical body
Clearly, a very high percentage holds those beliefs, even without religion.
There is usually a difference between people who believe in Yetis, ghosts, or little green men visiting earth and simply not believing those claims. This is the same for religion. Positive beliefs are usually conscious and have something invested in them, such as time. Disbelief can often be simply unconscious.
The expressed cognitive belief state is a conscious one in either case although if it is NOT expressed it is unconscious.
Not that I didn't like the rest of your post it's just that this stood out. My experience living in the South, or at least the area where I am, is similar. It sounds as though the only difference is your town/city let up on religion temporarily, that's never happened here and it never will. It's awful for an atheist.
YES I do feel religion, especially Fundamental Evangelical Christianity, has become way more aggressive and I think that a lot of those types of people believe the end is near. OMDog if I hear that one more time.....
You mentioned that some thought you were a devil worshiper. That is what all Christians here believe because they are so insanely ignorant about atheism. Don't believe in god? Well then, you must worship the devil because anyone who doesn't believe in god is serving Satan. Sound familiar? I've told others here that I am unable to completely come out of the atheist closet due to the fact that I will be shunned and considered evil. Not to mention the bombardment of the religious trying to convert me back to Christianity. Ha.
Absolutely no doubt about what you are saying about the South and their "uninformed" thoughts about atheism. I told one person who was unaware (although I gave her thousands of clues that I am not a believer) that I am an atheist......she lost her mind. It's the word "atheist" itself that sends them into a tailspin. So, saying I'm a "None" would not clue them in at all. They would just have more questions, I would give more clues and I eventually end up having to say the dreaded words "I'm an atheist".
Atheism IS stigmatized, but so are a lot of other things. Atheism though, just seems to take the hide right off their delusional backsides.
This is really what I was getting at.
My parents are religious. We didn't go to church "every time the doors were open," but it was enough to get "the feel for it." I was maybe 10-12 when I started realizing I didn't believe like everyone else then. By late middle/early high school, I was pretty much over religion entirely.
There was a lot of stigma back then if you weren't religious. There still is. A lot of networking occurs through church here.
There are more "nones" now than twenty years ago, but there is still a lot of stigma with being agnostic, much less atheist, and the religious population is emboldened in a way they didn't seem to be then.
What "it"? If it came out that someone was non-religious in a job interview? Who puts that in a job interview outside of the Bible Belt? I've been hired as a school teacher. Teacher candidate religious beliefs or lack thereof isn't relevant to the profession. If anything, candidates that are agnostic or atheistic would be preferred, especially for positions involving the teaching of science.
That's not been my experience at all after 33 years in education.
What "it"? If it came out that someone was non-religious in a job interview? Who puts that in a job interview outside of the Bible Belt? I've been hired as a school teacher. Teacher candidate religious beliefs or lack thereof isn't relevant to the profession. If anything, candidates that are agnostic or atheistic would be preferred, especially for positions involving the teaching of science.
There are lots of Catholic schools around in the US. Even Catholic universities. In those situations I imagine it's relevant.
In some regular elementary schools they still say the oath of allegiance which has the 'one nation under god' bit in it. I was surprised to find my kids school in CA did that in the mornings. We're only talking 8 years ago. I don't know if they still do it. But I guess since it was lead by a teacher, the teacher was demonstrating their faith in saying it.
If I was present I didn't say it, partly because I wasn't American at the time but I'm never going to swear an oath to god.
It was uncomfortable though being the only person in the room not saying it. I'd actually forgotten about this until I read your post.
This was is a very, very liberal non-Bible-belty location BTW.
Let me do some clarifying about interviews for teachers (I'm a retired vice principal -- principal of 20 years).
A principal shouldn't be asking questions about politics or religion in an interview. Of course...there are some dumb administrators out there.
It's when you're having a good on-topic interview and suddenly the candidate launches into a soliloquy about their religion and politics. Even if they were a Democrat and Buddhist (like me), I wouldn't hire them. Red flag, red flag, red flag. If they don't know what's appropriate or inappropriate in a job interview...
Let me do some clarifying about interviews for teachers (I'm a retired vice principal -- principal of 20 years).
A principal shouldn't be asking questions about politics or religion in an interview. Of course...there are some dumb administrators out there.
It's when you're having a good on-topic interview and suddenly the candidate launches into a soliloquy about their religion and politics. Even if they were a Democrat and Buddhist (like me), I wouldn't hire them. Red flag, red flag, red flag. If they don't know what's appropriate or inappropriate in a job interview...
They shouldn't do this, but the point of this thread is that people like this are often feeling more emboldened over the last several years to ask those types of religious questions, even for jobs in public schools.
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