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According to the report, the preachers in question were not primarily Obama supporters, that's correct. Preachers of any persuasion can talk politics all they want, as far as I'm concerned, so long as they forfeit their tax exempt status. The issue I'm raising has to do the the thinking or lack thereof, of the religious right in their embrace of a candidate who seems quite flawed from a Christian values/character perspective.
Since you brought this up, (and introduced the subject in this forum), I'd like to attempt to briefly answer your question.
You judge Obama's values and character differently than most christians do.
There are many "good" people -- people that may marry only once and are faithful to that person in a monogamous relationship for life.
I agree with you. In this day and age, that is a small miracle in itself. And, it does show values and character...
The fact that he attended a "church" and has maintained a relationship with the "pastor" for some 20 years doesn't make him a christian, either.
My uncle is one of those people. On the surface, he's a really nice man - a good man. Everyone loves my uncle.
He stayed married to one woman and was faithful "until death do us part".. but he's not a christian. In fact, his character is quite flawed.
If you really get to know him, you discover that he is actually very bitter about his life. He is filled with anger, hatred and unforgiveness.
The fact is that we can not tell from the outside appearance what is in the heart of people....
I'm glad that there is no score card being kept on my life.
Last edited by World Citizen; 09-30-2008 at 08:13 AM..
The simple fact is that Republicans are great at "culture wars". God, guns and gays dominate the dialog - so, this thread represents about a third of the war. Rightly or worngly, the people in the heartland believe Republicans are the last stand against a falling country, falling morality, etc. People believe the "marketed" picture, not the actual one. Recall, majority of the country thought that 9-11 was because of Iraq. Now this un-needed war cost us $1 trillion - we could have easily paid for the bailout which is about the same ($700 billion). Republicans say they reduce taxes and cut sepnding - but take a look at the national budget and it is not true. Each taxpayer owes about $12000 plus ($5300 for bailout, $7000 for Iraq war) - and we seem to be excited we got rebate checks back. The marketed values vs actual are very different for Republicans. Not saying all are like that but many of my Republican friends (who are pro-science, pro evolution, believe in fiscal responsibility etc) think their agenda has been hijacked by the extreme right.
Since you brought this up, (and introduced the subject in this forum), I'd like to attempt to briefly answer your question.
You judge Obama's values and character differently than most christians do.
There are many "good" people -- people that may marry only once and are faithful to that person in a monogamous relationship for life.
I agree with you. In this day and age, that is a small miracle in itself. And, it does show values and character...
The fact that he attended a "church" and has maintained a relationship with the "pastor" for some 20 years doesn't make him a christian, either.
My uncle is one of those people. On the surface, he's a really nice man - a good man. Everyone loves my uncle.
He stayed married to one woman and was faithful "until death do us part".. but he's not a christian. In fact, his character is quite flawed.
If you really get to know him, you discover that he is actually very bitter about his life. He is filled with anger, hatred and unforgiveness.
The fact is that we can not tell from the outside appearance what is in the heart of people....
I'm glad that there is no score card being kept on my life.
I've read your post three times and honestly I have no idea what your point is. The fact is, I am not judging McCain from a morals standpoint. There is little to nothing that I like about the man, but it is not his infidelity and gambling that puts me off. If Obama was on his fourth wife, was a cross-dresser and gambled more than Bill Bennett, he'd still get my vote.
It's the Christian right who has set some kind of morality standard over the last 30 years. They would have us believe that they know which candidate Jesus would prefer, who is more Christian, more moral. They pray and yelp and glossolaliate and the holy spirit points them to John McCain. Given who John McCain is, I just want to understand that.
I was simply responding to your OP.
It seemed that the point of your OP had to do with the fact that Mr. Obama's character and values were much more christian than Mr. McCain's.
In your OP, you mentioned Mr. Obama's church attendance and his long time relationship with his pastor.
Obama's pastor, Reverend Wright, certainly had an opinion about this election (and our country) which he proclaimed loudly from his pulpit.
He had no problem honoring and awarding a Muslim minister for "empowering" the black community in a "christian" church.
Reverend Wright is obviously not a member of the "Religious Right"... but, he has certainly used his pulpit to do the thing you hate.
I agree. Mr. Wright's church should lose his tax status, as well.
fyi - I'm not a member of the "Religious Right" and probably think about the same about them as you do....
Last edited by World Citizen; 09-30-2008 at 09:40 AM..
I would guess that you would get more responses from the xtian right if this was posted in the main forum.
The hypocrisy you eloquently expressed is just one reason why I can't believe in any of that stuff.
Since they did seem to have reservations about McCain, the better questions are how lying Sarah Palin, whom they flock to, is so much more moral than the others. How do they excuse her parenting with the obvious failure of her training as evidenced by the pregnant young teenager daughter who she so prominently paraded about. They castigate Hilliary Clinton's parenting and morals yet her daughter managed not to get pregnant in high school and Hilliary immediately told the press that her daughter was completely off limits. How is the self-serving behavior of Sarah more moral or better parenting?
This doesn't even start on the thousands of dollars she scalped from Alaskan taxpayers for her and her family to spend in their own house or the numerous other reports of her corruptions and abuse of power.
It does boggle the mind, but these people don't have thought processes like mine.
I would guess that you would get more responses from the xtian right if this was posted in the main forum.
The hypocrisy you eloquently expressed is just one reason why I can't believe in any of that stuff.
Since they did seem to have reservations about McCain, the better questions are how lying Sarah Palin, whom they flock to, is so much more moral than the others. How do they excuse her parenting with the obvious failure of her training as evidenced by the pregnant young teenager daughter who she so prominently paraded about. They castigate Hilliary Clinton's parenting and morals yet her daughter managed not to get pregnant in high school and Hilliary immediately told the press that her daughter was completely off limits. How is the self-serving behavior of Sarah more moral or better parenting?
This doesn't even start on the thousands of dollars she scalped from Alaskan taxpayers for her and her family to spend in their own house or the numerous other reports of her corruptions and abuse of power.
It does boggle the mind, but these people don't have thought processes like mine.
understanding the religious right. not much to understand, jerry falwell with a towel wrapped around his head. fundamentalists in bagdad and tennessee have a lot in common.
I would guess that you would get more responses from the xtian right if this was posted in the main forum.
The hypocrisy you eloquently expressed is just one reason why I can't believe in any of that stuff.
Since they did seem to have reservations about McCain, the better questions are how lying Sarah Palin, whom they flock to, is so much more moral than the others. How do they excuse her parenting with the obvious failure of her training as evidenced by the pregnant young teenager daughter who she so prominently paraded about. They castigate Hilliary Clinton's parenting and morals yet her daughter managed not to get pregnant in high school and Hilliary immediately told the press that her daughter was completely off limits. How is the self-serving behavior of Sarah more moral or better parenting?
This doesn't even start on the thousands of dollars she scalped from Alaskan taxpayers for her and her family to spend in their own house or the numerous other reports of her corruptions and abuse of power.
It does boggle the mind, but these people don't have thought processes like mine.
It does boggle the mind the way you view things.
Sarah Palin believes in God. She loves her daughter. Her daughter made a mistake.
What should she do? Put her away privily? Quit her job and quit living because her daughter made a mistake?
Maybe to you, she should just get an abortion so it would LOOK BETTER ???
Instead Sarah Palin still loves her daughter. She is not trying to cover up or pretend that it didn't happen. She's continuing to live her life and because her life is in the public, her daughter's pregnancy is also there for everyone to see.
Parents can do everything right and their children still can get into trouble. You do know where babies come from, don't you?
Sarah Palin believes in God. She loves her daughter. Her daughter made a mistake.
What should she do? Put her away privily? Quit her job and quit living because her daughter made a mistake?
Maybe to you, she should just get an abortion so it would LOOK BETTER ???
Instead Sarah Palin still loves her daughter. She is not trying to cover up or pretend that it didn't happen. She's continuing to live her life and because her life is in the public, her daughter's pregnancy is also there for everyone to see.
Parents can do everything right and their children still can get into trouble. You do know where babies come from, don't you?
Sorry. Your post made no sense..
I think it's more interesting that Palin's "abstinence only" program is something she advocates strongly for and yet her daughter comes home knocked up. It doesn't say much for the legitimacy of her program to begin with.
As far as Sarah Palin believing in God... I don't really care as long as she doesn't try to push those agendas (such as Creationism/Intelligent Design) into the school systems. Most candidates claim to believe in God even if their religious background can be a little sketchy. I do realize that Sarah Palin is a firm believer in God... and witchcraft, and spirits, and demons, and ghouls, and goblins. Which doesn't really bode well for me having confidence in her ability to make a rational decision based on EVIDENCE on something like... well... whether or not a country has weapons of mass destruction.
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about parenting...
