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06-16-2009, 07:15 AM
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Location: Nowhere'sville
2,339 posts, read 4,246,231 times
Reputation: 708
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This thought was forming in my head reading good ole kdbrich's comments in the thread about the Christian billboard. (kid with gun) He says that atheists have nothing to base their moral standards on. Bull. It is out of respect for other human beings and for ourselves that we should base our morals. I'd venture so far as to say athesists are better than christians! (sounds a little childish, I know) (but to make a point). Christians get their morals from a book telling them they'll be punished if they don't adhere to the moral code. Atheists get their morals from just knowing right from wrong. Kdbrich makes it sound like it is impossible to live a good clean life apart from the murdering OT god! I've never been a big bible believer but yet I have never committed adulter (I love my spouse...gasp! is that possible without god???) I treat my kids well and teach them right from wrong. Don't murder, steal, try not to lie, I'm not a pervert (don't watch porn) I pay my taxes, respect my elders, drive the speed limit, I do basically everything a "christian" would do but yet I am a heathen in their eyes. Go figure.
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06-16-2009, 07:17 AM
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Location: Nowhere'sville
2,339 posts, read 4,246,231 times
Reputation: 708
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Oh and let me add to my list...I don't smoke, I take care of my health, don't drink, never even tried drugs, and I don't swear like a sailor! Now am I good enough?
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06-16-2009, 07:37 AM
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Location: Texas
1,300 posts, read 2,042,035 times
Reputation: 743
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I understand it's easy to get frustrated when it comes to dealing with fundamentalist, but no, I would not say that atheist better than Christians overall.
It's the extreme faction that always makes the most noise and, it seems, gets the most attention. Not all believers are like that.
I'm also an Atheist that's never even gotten a speeding ticket, much less done any of that other horrible, sinful stuff. I didn't need a god to tell me not to do this or that, but apparently some people do.
So long as they don't take that belief to an extreme and go all fundie on me, I consider myself to be no better than them.
Last edited by achickenchaser; 06-16-2009 at 07:52 AM..
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06-16-2009, 08:53 AM
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Location: The land where cats rule
10,911 posts, read 9,216,981 times
Reputation: 3602
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True christians, excluding those who have to at all times profess their christianity and disparage others, can be good people. Atheists can be good people. It is when taken to extreme that either side becomes a denegrating example of their position.
Those christians who constantly expound at the top of their lungs their status as "christians" are, imo, extremely poor examples of what they think they are.
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06-16-2009, 10:33 AM
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2,884 posts, read 5,738,696 times
Reputation: 1990
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Is steak better than pork?
Is lettuce better than cabbage?
Is it lunch time?
It's all about the preparation. It's not what the person is, but what they do. I find people who are non-aggressive and non-coercive to others to be the "best" people. I find people who are vengeful, controlling, and supporters of coercive violence to be the "worst" people.
Some of them are atheists, some of them are believers. Overall, some people are awesome, some people suck, and most are somewhere in between.
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06-16-2009, 10:51 AM
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Location: Space Coast
1,988 posts, read 5,186,222 times
Reputation: 2765
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Assuming by better you mean more moral...
If one looks at the levels of moral reasoning (as described by Kohlberg), the tendency to "do what is right" because "some authority says to" is a very LOW stage of moral development. By that Kohlbergian definition, most of the bible thumpers can't possibly be "more moral" because they buy into the "because the bible says so" crap and do (or not do) things because "god" says to. Very toddler-like.
Meanwhile, those who operate at a higher level of moral development do so from a more intrinsic motivation, and they rarely, if ever, view issues in black and white - lots more gray areas. I know a lot more atheists and agnostics (not all, of course) that operate at this level than I do bible-thumpers.
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06-16-2009, 11:00 AM
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Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,139,124 times
Reputation: 5520
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I don't think you can take any group of people who happen to share certain religious beliefs or lack of them and say that one group is better than the other. Every human being is unique and has their good qualities as well as their faults. However I also find it aggravating when Christians suggest that atheists are somehow morally decadent, selfish, or whatever else they want to throw at us. I feel that I'm a person with strong morals and I don't need to explain myself to someone who doesn't have the slightest understanding of my point of view.
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06-16-2009, 11:12 AM
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Location: Victoria, BC.
33,296 posts, read 35,787,713 times
Reputation: 13738
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The fundies do like to put us on the defensive don't they? We are all individuals....Some good and some not so good, but I'd rather be a good person through my own conviction and reasoning, rather than follow the rules of some ancient violent book.
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06-16-2009, 12:05 PM
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4,653 posts, read 4,787,015 times
Reputation: 409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1
This thought was forming in my head reading good ole kdbrich's comments in the thread about the Christian billboard. (kid with gun) He says that atheists have nothing to base their moral standards on. Bull. It is out of respect for other human beings and for ourselves that we should base our morals. I'd venture so far as to say athesists are better than christians! (sounds a little childish, I know) (but to make a point). Christians get their morals from a book telling them they'll be punished if they don't adhere to the moral code. Atheists get their morals from just knowing right from wrong. Kdbrich makes it sound like it is impossible to live a good clean life apart from the murdering OT god! I've never been a big bible believer but yet I have never committed adulter (I love my spouse...gasp! is that possible without god???) I treat my kids well and teach them right from wrong. Don't murder, steal, try not to lie, I'm not a pervert (don't watch porn) I pay my taxes, respect my elders, drive the speed limit, I do basically everything a "christian" would do but yet I am a heathen in their eyes. Go figure.
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I'm not suggesting that you can't be a moral person. My whole position is the fact that you have nothing objective to base it on.
What moral compass do you have that tells you what is right and wrong?
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06-16-2009, 12:22 PM
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2,884 posts, read 5,738,696 times
Reputation: 1990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
I'm not suggesting that you can't be a moral person. My whole position is the fact that you have nothing objective to base it on.
What moral compass do you have that tells you what is right and wrong?
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You don't have anything objective to base it on either.
If you think that you do, explain why there are so many interpretations of the same text and lead to vastly different moral and ethical standards of behavior?
Morality is subjective. For me. For you. Everyone. Most people develop their morality as a way of getting along with the people around them in a way that doesn't create more conflict than they are comfortable with. |
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